Looks like the honeymoon is over for subscribers as major operators like Vodafone Airtel and Idea has threaten to exit 3G services due to the dispute over the 3G roaming pact.
As per the reports on IBNLive Bharti Airtel Chairman Sunil Mittal, Idea Cellular Chairman Kumar Birla and Vodafone CEO Vittorio Colao have written a joint letter to the PM.They want a refund of the 3G spectrum payments if intra-circle roaming is not allowed.
The letter cites for a refund of the auction payment with interest as well as compensation for all capital investments made in 3G.
With the help of 3G Intra Circle Roaming Agreements (ICRA) Vodafone, Airtel and IDEA Cellular offered commercial 3G Mobile and Data services to their subscribers with Pan India coverage where they currently don’t have 3G spectrum and licenses.
TRAI said this is a violation of the terms of the licence with serious financial implications for the government.
Intra circle roaming is not practically illegal as it is already between some operators who are offering 2G services, but here in this case these operators work together as an entity to offer pan India 3G operations. Airtel, Vodafone and Idea are not only offering 3G services to their subscribers while on roaming, they also offer commercial 3G services in those circles where one has spectrum and others don’t have. It is completely illegal and pose a security and financial threat to the government. What these operators is doing, is similar to if Uninor, Videocon & other 2G players start 3G services in circles using other operators’ 3G spectrum.
What’s your take on this do you think its a good practice to provide 3G services using ICRA or should operators abide by the rules of TRAI? Do let us know your views by comments.
rio December 6, 2011 at 10:15 pm
WTF IS WRONG WITH GOVT…….IN PLACES LIKE KARNATAKA VODAPHONE,IDEA 3G ARE NOT AVAILABLE……ESPECIALL IDEA 3G IS CHEAP…..IF THEY CANCEL THAT, WE HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR 3G PROVIDERS LIKE DOCOMO N ALL…BAD MOVE TRAI!!! ALSO WERE YOU GOVT PPL SLEEPING WHEN THESE “ROAMING DEALS” WERE TAKING PLACE????
Amit Deb Biswas November 26, 2011 at 8:16 pm
third class operators did not increase data charges.. 1st class operators had done this..
Amit Deb Biswas November 26, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Impossible………….
AP November 25, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@s biswas
What 2G prices have been increased? I can now get 2GB 2G data for Rs. 98. It is much cheaper than what I had earlier. My telephone tariff is also unchanged from what I subscribed to a year and a half ago.
Intra Circle Roaming is not about reducing tariffs, it is about increasing coverage. And it is already being done. Infotel’s 4G will be out in December. That is going to force 3G tariffs down further for 3G operators.
kankan November 25, 2011 at 2:51 am
just i am showing that how much poor our government policies are….@Saurabh
tony November 25, 2011 at 1:30 am
in India media and companies try to mislead everybody, not try to tell correct thing behind it. companies try to project this as roaming but actually they are offering services in the circle in which they have not 3G spectrum. these 2 companies behave like a cartel. Tariff planing or offering are identical (just change it cloths to not get into legal action)
Silsila November 24, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Dear friend, bsnl & mtnl are not on intra-circle roaming as by the avi. They have roaming agreement only in circles where the other party is not present.
ap November 24, 2011 at 9:42 pm
if icra is illegal how bsnl n mtnl&aircel n docomo are able to use each other’s 3g network.moreover if icra is banned then all have to purchase that companys sim.so its great problem.i thibk trai n operators sort out this matter bring fruitful results
Saurabh November 24, 2011 at 7:20 pm
@INDU
Though this trio has reduced the data usage and increased the tariffs for some packs yet 2G is cheap as compared with the previous prices of 300-600/month. Besides this other operator (say Tata Docomo or Aircel or Reliance or Videocon or even BSNL) are still providing cheap 2G. You should consider them instead. I was an Idea user but since they reduced data in 98 from unlimited to 1GB, I shifted to Reliance (6GB for 99). Why to criticize these companies when we have other options easily available. We have 10-12 operators in India. Just enjoy karo yaar.
Saurabh November 24, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Read about it in ET few hours ago. So finally people in Pakistan will have 3G in coming days. Lets see how auction process goes and how much Govt. fetch out in 3G spectrum auction. 3 blocks will be on offer. As far as I know 2G still costs PKR 500/month for 2-5GB there. Pakistan has 5 operators so don’t expect aggressive bidding for 3 slots. Zong (or China Mobile) will go for Pan-Pakistan license as they are the only one to ave huge amount of money and also Pak-Chi have good relations.
Pakistan has a population of around 180 million and estimates are that there are over 90 million mobile phone users.
@Kankan, Don’t compare these two countries. We didn’t had 10MHz band available for 3G i.e why operators were allocated 2X5MHz. But just take a look at number of subscribers 3 slots and 10MHz band for just 9 crore mobile phone users (Don’t know how many of them use 3G mobiles or dongles) is quite surprising. Let them ave true experience of 3G.
INDU November 24, 2011 at 5:56 pm
YES AIRTEL-VODAFONE-IDEA CARTEL PLEASE SURRENDER THE 3G SPECTRUM AND SPARE INDIAN CUSTOMERS YOUR LOOTING. YOU HAVE PROVED WITH YOUR DISPROPORTIONATE 2G TARIFF HIKE (RS.98 – 1GB FROM 2GB, VALIDITY – 365 DAYS TO 180 ETC.) THAT YOU CARTEL HERE ARE TO SUCK & F@#k INDIAN PEOPLE. BETTER SURRENDER 2G SPECTRUM ALSO AND QUIT TELECOM BUSINESS ALSO IF YOU HAVE SO MUCH PROBLEMS FROM GOVERNMENT AND DO SOME OTHER BUSINESS WHERE YOU CAN MAKE HUGE UN-NATURAL PROFIT OR INVEST IN SOME OTHER CONTINENT LIKE AFRICA OR TIMBAKTOO. INDIAN TELECOM INDUSTRY WILL BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT YOU CHOR & FRAUD CARTEL!
kankan November 24, 2011 at 5:44 pm
In Pakistan, 3G service providers get 10Mhz of spectrum but in India each operator get 5Mhz spectrum only in that also sharing between 3 operators, now you decide what will be the service quality.
atanu November 24, 2011 at 2:50 pm
both paid, so why delete?
Saurabh November 24, 2011 at 2:19 pm
If you are using 2G pack on 3G network then you can’t expect more than this and yes you are right that speed is capped to 64Kbits/s or 8Kbytes/s in most of the areas. But in some areas like in Punjab/Chandigarh people are getting 3G speed on 2G plans like my cousin using 2G pack (6GB for Rs.99) and he gets speed from 11-20Mbps without any 3G pack activation. Also if someone uses a roaming SIM like I used my SIM in Chandigarh with 2G pack, I got 3G speed.
Reliance don’t have 3G license for Haryana but the.ir 2G speed in my area is awesome. 220-256Kbits/s average. Vodafone also provides same speed 210-240Kbits/s like Reliance but Vodafone plans are too costly now. So I’m using Reliance. 6GB in 99 is cheapest among all and with this speed it is more than “Value for Money”
Ajay Dhar November 24, 2011 at 12:14 pm
I’m Getting Only 8 KBps Speed On Reliance 3G While BSNL Is Providing 10MBps Speed But Is Very Expensive,Is Reliance Also CappIng Speed…….
narendra November 24, 2011 at 2:20 am
when the whole world is moving to 4g after experiencing 3g we are still fighting “who is to provide where” for 3g services.we still don’t have proper 2g/edge coverage in villages.these operators will give nothing and make maximum profits,thats it.i dont know about vodafone but airtel & idea are chor companies they charge but give no equavalent service.
s biswas November 23, 2011 at 11:34 pm
Whats the guarantee that this cartel will reduce 3g tariff if ICR roaming is allowed? This same cartel has increased 2g prices like hell and you expect them to reduce 3g tariff? They are justifying their current high 3g tariff to high 3g spectrum price (they included & calculated ICR within the tariff pricing).
What a joke… Or should i say what a lie!
kankan November 23, 2011 at 11:32 pm
First of all, get out the Vodafone cellular from the market it is the main culprit in telecom sector who encourages other operators to pressurize the government.
s biswas November 23, 2011 at 11:24 pm
its better if the b******d vodafone not only quits 3g but 2g as well and leave india for good. its sucking & f***ing indian customers with its unethical & anti consumer policies. its our bad luck that the m****** f***** a******* vodafone took over hutch instead of some other operator.
WiMAX November 23, 2011 at 9:10 pm
good move by TRAI.
WiMAX November 23, 2011 at 9:09 pm
TATA DOCOMO Please don’t cap your 2g internet speed….. we need speed very badly……….:(
4G November 23, 2011 at 9:06 pm
you r right ,, docomo cap their speed in 2g .. this is so bad for those who use tata docomo internet..
3G November 23, 2011 at 8:58 pm
now its time for BSNL to gain their 3g coverage in all over india. Most part of india they provide only GPRS not EDGE. for that their speed is too slow in those place. if they have 3g spectrum in pan india then why they not serve 3g in all part of india. but i think TRAI is go in right way. why private operator rule over gov. operator.
gappu November 23, 2011 at 8:20 pm
in sum circle airtel and vodafone have paid for the same circle, so plz delete that amount, if they know this that they have to use the spectrum they shld think at that tym…nw these all companies are duping by using the spectrum on sharing basis…
3G November 23, 2011 at 8:08 pm
The spectrum allotted by the DoT was for ONE operator.
When the subscribers of 2-3 operators starts to use the same spectrum(i.e through ICR), this will create congestion and deteriorate the quality of the services.
The ultimate loser is the subscriber itself. He has to pay the higher price but the service he get would be of low quality.
As the no of data pack users increase the operators will cap the speed, as did by Tata Docomo in 2G.
Connectivity problems will also become frequent.
In my opinion, ICR itself should not be allowed.
3 November 23, 2011 at 8:07 pm
The spectrum by the DoT was for ONE single operator.
When the subscribers of 2-3 operators starts to use the same spectrum(i.e through ICR), this will create congestion and deteriorate the quality of the services.
The ultimate loser is the subscriber itself. He has to pay the higher price but the service he get would be of low quality.
As the no of data pack users increase the operators will cap the speed, as did by Tata Docomo in 2G.
Connectivity problems will also become frequent.
In my opinion, ICR itself should not be allowed.
Pratik November 23, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Because when BSNL make profite this goes to goverment. BSNL providing their services in all area, when customer amount is less than 10.
Is any private operator providing landline service to any village?
Private company make profite and pocketed itself.
Make loss cry for goverment help (See the Maliya.)
Saurabh November 23, 2011 at 6:06 pm
You know, what Idea has written on their website regarding 3G coverage in non-license area,
* 3G services through mutual intra circle roaming arrangements, as permitted by DoT. lol
I think even DoT isn’t aware of such permits i.e why they asked the operators to bring down the 3G operations.
Aircel has already stopped 3G services in ICRA circles. We cannot access Docomo 3G network anymore. Even there website which was showing availability before is now showing service not available.
Rohan November 23, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Having access to license to provide service doesnt imply companies have right to abuse it rather than use it , Companies should consult the Ministry of Telecommunication before such policy and sort out their views if they are within license . In greed to increase their revenues and loss due to competitions these companies are forming formidable alliances to counter market and increase their revenue through price rise which we have witnessed in current call chargese rise of these operators . It should be remembered that Govt of india is in supreme court against vodafone against them for violation of income tax policies . Govt of india has done great error in granting vodafone license for 3G before them to clearing their pending tax deal on takeover of hutch essar .If these companies have issue regarding it they are free to approach supreme court of india rather than threatheing the govt to withdraw . Govt should be stern toward these companies and should let them know they are more beneficiary than govt just like kingfisher airlines when it was running it profit it claimed all profit and never sought FDI now its in trouble it asking loans from public banks which are contrary to the policy of govt . I feel these coorporates know how to manage bureaucrats and ministers toward them and hence causing loss of billions of dollor to India sovereignty .
AP November 23, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@Saurabh
Despite the increased attenuation, operators are the ones who have to ensure that the signal covers the maximum possible area. Competition drives operators to ensure this. In some instances, I can get a 3G signal inside large buildings where I cannot get a decent 900 MHz 2G signal for some other operator. This is why I said that it does not make much difference from a subscriber’s perspective. It is the operator who has to invest in additional infrastructure to ensure saturation coverage.
tejas November 23, 2011 at 3:19 pm
well there must be some clauses regarding the sharing of 3g in the agreements….its a technical issue that involves legalities. we dont have much idea about the legal issues so our comments dont carry much weightage. in any case the nations interest comes first. business people have business in mind and thats how they operate.
Saurabh November 23, 2011 at 3:17 pm
If this is illegal then I think, MVNOs like Talk24, Virgin Mobile, 2G spectrum sharing between Tata and Aircel in many circles should also be declared illegal by TRAI. Why they are silent on all this? It is because of the fact that we have rules available for 2G spectrum sharing but no rules framed for 3G as of now which is creating a problem. I’m waiting for NTP-2011 to come. It will clear many things on 2G/3G Spectrum sharing.
Animesh November 23, 2011 at 2:58 pm
What about the loss caused by the Govt by doing all sorts of 3G and 2G scams, apparently they were happy as they were filling their own pockets, World over Mobile companies work on intra-country network tie up agreements(All other countries the mobile services operate all over the country and not different circles as India has been divided in to)If they say such intra-circle roaming agreements are illegal, all that needs to be amended is the law ,These kind of arrangements between operators is absolutely practical,in terms of reducing operating cost and infrastructure cost, wherein the subscriber is ultimately benefited.
atanu November 23, 2011 at 2:55 pm
first u see, carefully.
airtel paid Rs. 12295.46 cr, vodafone paid Rs. 11616.86 cr, idea paid Rs. 5768.59 cr- total Rs. 29680.91 cr. for pan india (if intra circle allow. although miss orrisa, this trio have not 3g licence).
and other hand bsnl pay Rs. 10,186.58 cr. if added mtnl for delhi & mumbai Rs. 6,564.00 cr. then amount will. Rs. 16,750.58 cr.
so u can add bsnl + mtnl.
but can’t airtel + vodafone + idea.
http://www.dot.gov.in/as/Auction%20of%20Spectrum%20for3G%20&%20BWA/3G_Auction_Payment_Mechanism.pdf
atanu November 23, 2011 at 2:55 pm
first u see, carefully.
airtel paid Rs. 12295.46 cr, vodafone paid Rs. 11616.86 cr, idea paid Rs. 5768.59 cr- total Rs. 29680.91 cr. for pan india (if intra circle allow. although miss orrisa, this trio have not 3g licence).
and other hand bsnl pay Rs. 10,186.58 cr. if added mtnl for delhi & mumbai Rs. 6,564.00 cr. then amount will. Rs. 16,750.58 cr.
so u can add bsnl + mtnl.
but can’t airtel + vodafone + idea.
Jagan November 23, 2011 at 2:46 pm
@Saurabh You have a valid points.
- For AVI Cartel -This is a true mafia style. If they do a fair agreement, they must share the revenue to the Govt.
- For TRAI/Govt – First they overpriced the 3G spectrum, so Telco’s paid a hefty price, Now they do backdoor entry/agreements to meet the prices.
- Please tell any one point. How the user can be access a Pan India 3G coverage on his own mobile no. with out any roaming agreement?
- Finally the users – We are the fools here.
atanu November 23, 2011 at 2:29 pm
+1
Praveen November 23, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Govt is doing nothing then to introduce unnecessary complicated bureaucratic terms/ways to people from doing business
zeeshan November 23, 2011 at 1:56 pm
if 3G inracircle roaming in allowed then BSNL and MTNL may offer to uninor videocon etc to use their spectrum for providing pan india 3G services.
sAm November 23, 2011 at 1:51 pm
@Kanaga Deepan N
I understand but still If BSNL thought of doing serious business they should have come up with new business strategies by giving incumbents d partial license of 3G.But they didn’t.And so that shouldnot b d reason of others strategy.
Ajay November 23, 2011 at 1:09 pm
What ever it is, the prime focus should be affordable 3G rates.
Ahamed November 23, 2011 at 1:04 pm
Sharing of 3G spectrum and offering of 3G services in non-licensed circles are clear violation of all existing rules of the land. If these three companies are not interested in 3G services abiding to the agreed rules let them exit. Refund of spectrum charges can not be agreed upon. Thretening Govt by the Private companies should be resisted by the people at any cost. Govt should be firm in the issue. Otherwise, a 3G SCAM issue will be emerging!
Amit.G November 23, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@PRASAD
I again request u to do some research. Mobile incoming charge was removed because of introduction of calling part pay regime in 2001 which was implemented by TRAI, earlier congress led govt has made such a disguisting rule that calls made from landline to mobile didn had interconnect charge( private operator cannot get money from govt) but calls originated from private mobiles had termination charge which operators have to pay!! THis was DOT’s unfair rule which led to exit of many many players. Do one thing just find out first 10 operators of India & i can bet u 80% of them wont exist now!!
Amit.G November 23, 2011 at 12:58 pm
I again request u to do some research. Mobile incoming charge was removed because of introduction of calling part pay regime in 2001 which was implemented by TRAI, earlier congress led govt has made such a disguisting rule that calls made from landline to mobile didn had interconnect charge( private operator cannot get money from govt) but calls originated from private mobiles had termination charge which operators have to pay!! THis was DOT’s unfair rule which led to exit of many many players. Do one thing just find out first 10 operators of India & i can bet u 80% of them wont exist now!!
Amit.G November 23, 2011 at 12:55 pm
I again request u to do some research. Mobile incoming charge was removed because of introduction of calling part pay regime in 2001 which was implemented by TRAI, earlier congress led govt has made such a disguisting ru
Ansari.A November 23, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Does that means that the trio had fixed the aution process, so that they can share the airwave later with sharing pact ?
As far I understand, Trai is not against roaming packing between operators, but launching of full fledge commericial operation in the circles where they do not hold commercial licence and I think, if the Trio are not able to understand this simple logic, then they are arm twisting the govt to give in to their demands.
Just that they have lience they can’t act the way they want, but abide by the licence term. I think the govt should insist on licence term and not doged by their threats.
The refund of the auction payment does not arise at all what so ever.
Saurabh November 23, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Kanaga Deepan N
Who has stopped BSNL to get into intra-circle roaming agreement with any other company?
You know private telcos first approached BSNL for intra-circle roaming but they didn’t allowed it and missed the chance to earn some bucks. Similarlly MTNL said no to Tata/Aircel. Then they decided to have a pact among themselves and now Govt. is having problem with this as they are not getting a single penny. I don’t think if they had tie-up with BSNL to go Pan-India there would be any issues like this.
The other thing is why did Govt allotted spectrum to BSNL ahead of 3G spectrum auction and asked them to match the highest bid by private telcos? Wasn’t this unfair to give them spectrum and they earned from 3G services as they were lone 3G operator for 1-2 years. If BSNL is getting financially weak its only because of themselves+Govt policies and not others. If they had participated in auction, I don’t think they were ever be able to fetch a single license looking at their financial condition at the time of auction.
BSNL failed to make most of the opportunity by not launching 3G at most of the places. Even 3G is not available in major towns. Private telcos now have 3G presence in more cities and towns and that’s too in a less time compared with BSNL.
Telecom as a sector is in deep trouble in India because of over-regulations and if regulators like TRAI continue their worst approach towards sector, it will soon die. Why don’t they just let BSNL and other operators to work in a free environment? When they have de-regulated some sectors, why not Telecom?
Anshul Sood November 23, 2011 at 12:40 pm
You are right that their load is reduced to one third but you must also take into account that their full load was for about 9-10 states and now they have 1/3 rd load for almost 25 circles. So their total expenditure remains the same except that their subscribers can now enjoy uninterrupted service. Bsnl paid about 10,000 crore for its 20 circles while these three paid about 8,000 to 12,000 crore for their respective 9-10 circles. So again BSNL was in profit. Also it had almost a full year of head-start and an opportunity to establish a monopoly but failed to do so
Anshul Sood November 23, 2011 at 12:40 pm
@Kanaga Deepan N
You are right that their load is reduced to one third but you must also take into account that their full load was for about 9-10 states and now they have 1/3 rd load for almost 25 circles. So their total expenditure remains the same except that their subscribers can now enjoy uninterrupted service. Bsnl paid about 10,000 crore for its 20 circles while these three paid about 8,000 to 12,000 crore for their respective 9-10 circles. So again BSNL was in profit. Also it had almost a full year of head-start and an opportunity to establish a monopoly but failed to do so
Saurabh November 23, 2011 at 12:10 pm
@AP, 900MHz and 1800MHz frequency band does make difference when it comes to distance (or wavelength) and indoor coverage. An operator operating on 900MHz band have better indoor coverage and signal to a longer distance than the one operating on 1800MHz band. 900MHz band is costlier then 1800Mz i.e why only 2-3 operators in each circle have spectrum in this band.
Frequency= 1/Wavelength
You are right that 3G operates on higher frequencies which is 1900MHz/2100MHz or 2.1GHz and that’s why the 3G indoor coverage is not good at all with 3G. 2100MHz frequency band cannot penetrate through walls.
Kanaga Deepan N November 23, 2011 at 11:44 am
Please try to understand sir…
Take KARNATAKA for example, where only Airtel has 3G license and both Voda + Idea without license are offering 3G services… They pay money to Airtel and provide 3G services… So NOW 3G AUCTION LOAD of Airtel is reduced to ONE-THIRD without much effort… But BSNL has PAID FULL AMOUNT OF AUCTION and has to bear FULL LOAD to compete with them… AVI can even charge much less than BSNL there as the amount paid was only one-third….
So it is BSNL in first place should have started the war… But since its officers are over-paid above table by BSNL and also below-table by pvt players, they are behaving like nothing is going wrong…
AP November 23, 2011 at 11:21 am
@fammi There is no significant difference from a subscriber’s perspective if the operator uses 900 or 1800 Mhz. 3G works at higher frequencies than these and everyone seems to be getting along fine there too.
fammi November 23, 2011 at 10:42 am
@AP IN DELHI 900 MHz band spectrum IS USED BY AIRTEL, VODAFONE AND MTNL and other operators use 1800 Mhz.
BSNL has more than 270000 employs and Airtel has only 30000 employs. BSNL pay roll is nine times more than Airtel. Airtel will have enough money to spare on network and quality, BSNL will be in financial problem and wont be able to improve network and quality.
WE WILL WITNESS ANOTHER AIRINDIA IN NEAR FUTURE.
Sudhakar November 23, 2011 at 10:27 am
What operators say is correct. The government must provide intra circle and inter circle 3G roaming.
This idiotic government is trying to collect money for launching 3G in each circle which is highly unfair. Will the government refund the amount if India becomes one telecom circle according to the new telecom policy (that will come into effect from Jan 2012)?.
Saurabh November 23, 2011 at 10:19 am
As far as this topic is concerned TT has mentioned the meaning of intra-circle roaming but some people are not getting it and telling that who will use 3G in roaming at 10p/10KB rates. Let them live in fool’s paradise.
For me there is one solution to the problem. Let operators allow intra-circle roaming and ask them for revenue sharing with Govt. as with the present case only operators are getting benefited. But that’s what operators don’t want.
Lets take an example, If Uninor gets into a 3G intra-circle roaming pact with say (Airtel-Idea-Vodafone) trio, they will pay fee to these 3 operators on annual basis and revenue sharing also and Govt. will get nothing out of it except the service tax. It will be like Uninor offering pan-India 3G services (except Orrisa) without even having 3G license and paying nothing to Govt. for it, which makes no sense at all.
Reliance Comm. is the only one who is out of all this messy situation as they are offering 3G in those 13 circles only for which they have the license. BTW Telcos are good at turning rules their own way.
Saurabh November 23, 2011 at 9:45 am
This is because guidelines are there for intra-circle 2G spectrum sharing but not for 3G as of now. That’s what TRAI has tell DoT that when there are no guidelines on 3G spectrum sharing, how these operators are offering 3G services in circles where they don’t have licenses? Maybe when new NTP which is expected to arrive in January 2012, they clear the way for 3G spectrum sharing but for now it is illegal. I’ve gone through the current guidelines which says, “An operator A. can allow operator B to use its network for roaming purposes”
For e.g- In Haryana circle, four operators i.e Idea/BSNL/Tata Docomo/Vodafone have 3G license. Anyone of these can allow subscribers of other operator (say Airtel/Aircel which don’t have 3G license for Haryana) of other states (say Airtel Mumbai) to roam on there network for 3G.
But they are allowing subscribers of same circle to use their network. Example: I’m an Airtel Haryana customers and I know Airtel don’t have 3G license for my circle. But here they have tie-up with Idea which is allowing me to access Idea 3G Haryana network on my Airtel Haryana number at that too at home rates and not roaming.
Hope this will soon get sort out soon. BTW most of the people are confused here with Intra-circle raoming arrangements.
Zeeshan November 23, 2011 at 8:38 am
If intra circle roaming is allowed in 3G and 2G both then uninor, videocon loop, cheers can also provide 3G services by using spectrum of other operator. In the case of 2G Tata Docomo can start servies in JK Assam and North East by using Aircel’s 2G spectrum. Intra circle roaming for 2G and 3G both are illegal it should be banned as it will effect revenue of govt.
zeeshan November 23, 2011 at 8:25 am
@AM KE
I totally agree with you.
zeeshan November 23, 2011 at 8:22 am
that is why tata docomo and reliance are providong 3G services only in those circles in which they won the 3G licences. They were well aware that intra circle roaming is illegal. Govt will refund only such amout as was paid by them to it for licences and not for infrastructural expenses because such expenses were made by them only on those circles where they have licenses.
prasad November 23, 2011 at 7:58 am
@Amit.g
please check airtel tarrif before 2001 (before BSNL gsm launch)
prasad November 23, 2011 at 7:55 am
@Saurabh Sinha
pproblem here is not roaming….selling SIM in non licenced area.
RDB November 23, 2011 at 7:22 am
@ankur
Illegal – I is in capital
@everyone who are supporting the axis of evil (A+V+I), I have to ask them: do you support if Videocon/Uninor starts 3G services in some circles?
Someone comments here that how bsnl and mtnl can offer pan India services, it is simple bsnl customers roam free on mtnl network and vice versa!
gappu November 23, 2011 at 7:12 am
this is only a threat….they vl never return the spectrum bcuz they have spend a large amount on equipment and its installation… they are only pressurizing our goveronment… All private companies have already cheated our country with A.Raja and now its there new stunt. I believe in our nation thats why i ported in BSNL…. Jaago logo jaago….
Ganesh Srinivasan November 23, 2011 at 6:02 am
My take on the matter
There are two aspects to this issue
a] roaming arrangement – clear definition and whoever can pay higher rates should be allowed, hence the ICRA between operators should be allowed as valid [as in 2G]
b] but citing the same ICRA, operators who did not even bid for 3G in a circle, but are offering 3G should be banned. For example Vodafone did not [bid for the right amount] and get the license for 3G in Karnataka, but they offer 3G in Karnataka based on ICRA with others. Such an offering should obviously be banned
Saurabh Sinha November 23, 2011 at 5:41 am
100% agreed.
Because of, during auction of 3G spectrum, firstly asked for pan India license, but no one private operator agreed for it.
This pattern should be implemented on 2G platform also.
I am giving a example of Tata Docomo 2G for few circles, i.e. West Bengal, Bihar & Gujarat, for which, they have license.
They are offering other operator’s network for home circle subscribers also.
Other operator’s network should be only for romaers in non licensed circle.
AM KE November 23, 2011 at 12:43 am
I want to say something about that matter.
First thing Roaming provided by operator when you out of your home circle. But when a operator not have 3G licence in particular circle then how he can provide 3G in that circle. Roaming facility only for roamers who comes from other circles where 3G service available in this case operator provide 3G service with roaming agreement.
Saurabh Sinha November 23, 2011 at 12:27 am
These private operators (Airtel, Idea & Vodafone) are offering 3G network to customers of each other, while they are in roaming & their operator has no 3G license in that circle.
Same operations are done by MTNL & BSNL also.
In case of 2G, all operators (other than pan India licensed) are doing same for unlicensed circle roaming.
Why should these operations not to be prevented ????
This is done for; firstly, subscribers facility. After that operators revenue & subscribes base.
Govt. should understand these problems & resolve it.
ankur November 23, 2011 at 12:26 am
@Tarun check spelling mistake of post title looks like its lllegal not illegal.
Rohan Singh November 23, 2011 at 12:23 am
I think operators should be allowed to offer 3G services by sharing other network operators..
zeeshan November 23, 2011 at 12:11 am
@Debopratim Roy
I am also with BSNL now. Ported out of Airtel one month ago.
AP November 22, 2011 at 11:25 pm
@dhirendra Not so. The operator’s nationwide 3G plans are valid and much cheaper than the tariff you mention. Operators offer 1 GB for 500 or 600 rupees too. Such plans are also valid in ‘roaming’ 3G circles.
Debopratim Roy November 22, 2011 at 11:21 pm
This is the only reason why I am with CellOne since 2003. Ishiliye aaj BSNL ke saath hindusthan bol raha haai.
dhirendra November 22, 2011 at 11:03 pm
All of you, please just tell me one thing. how many of you would like to use 3g services at roaming knowing that the charges of data at roaming are either 10p/10kb or more than that? I thing this whole question is ridiculous. you have to pay 10rupees for 1mb and you may use it within 1 to 2 seconds that means if you want to use data services of 3g at roaming then you will have to pay 10000rupees per GB. then why should one talk about using 3g in roaming when most of them will not at all want to use it?
so my friends, leave this question as we all know that most of us will never use 3g services in roaming as in all the 3 companies(airtel, idea, vodafone), any 3g pack will not work in roaming and you will have to pay from your main account balance and the charges of usage are sky high.
thank you.
sAm November 22, 2011 at 10:54 pm
@Saurabh gupta
+1
sAm November 22, 2011 at 10:53 pm
What the GOVT is thinking?? Operators will give huge sums to money and GOVT will just njoy it !!!! When these private operators are giving huge lumpsums, they want to do business.Thatz it.Although I’m not in support of this cartel yet I should say in this issue that it is d duty of d Govt to give them d perfect platform for doing d business.Otherwise no 1 will pay such amounts in a country like India if they can’t utilise d amt fully.
Esmail November 22, 2011 at 10:47 pm
I don’t understand what the entire fuss is about, all of these 3G providers Airtel, Vodafone and Idea offer roaming tariff in the range of 10p/10KB (Home tariff does not apply in roaming) which equals to Rs.10 per MB and Rs.1000 per 100MB. At 3G speeds of 7.2 and 21.1 Mbps one can easily consume this much data in no time and would have to pay heavy monthly bills. Wouldn’t it be smarter to use EVDO in roaming? EVDO services have free national roaming, home tariff applies no matter which circle you are using it in..
Arun November 22, 2011 at 10:18 pm
These companies
had entered into a
bilateral roaming
agreement, both
inter and intra circle,
to provide 3G services to customers
in the circles where
they cannot build
their own 3G
network as they do
not have the licence, in order to bring a
pan-India
experience of 3G
services to their
users. If it is a violation of the 3G spectrum auction and/or usage rules, then Govt. should not budge and enforce the rules. Otherwise the very purpose of auctioning the spectrum would be defeated.
AJAY November 22, 2011 at 10:17 pm
TRAI may be in right direction…
As its illegal on the part of the operators… airtel, vod , idea paid spectrum fees for 10 to 13 circles each but want to enjoy all the 22 circles… Not at all a fair business policy… if this is the case than bsnl and mtnl should be refunded all its money with compound interests and compensations for paying the money for all the circles…
Rajesh Soni November 22, 2011 at 9:47 pm
The government is right. I support the Govt.
Aakash Kumar November 22, 2011 at 9:41 pm
@AP
Hi AP, agree to you however my point was regarding Inter Circle tie up and not Intra. my travel was not to a foreign land but another city/state in India. But thanks for your comment..
Amit.g November 22, 2011 at 9:40 pm
@prasad
I think its because of sticky people like you sitting there in DOT who are creating problems to operators in offering services.. BSNL has become a pray for corrupt people & its struggling hard to come out from its problems.. Remember India has cheapest tariff not because of BSNL its because of the competition among 12 private operators,
sachin November 22, 2011 at 9:38 pm
its a good move by the three operators i fully support it as the goverment is utilizing the operators at the maximum these days
shiva November 22, 2011 at 9:31 pm
@Amit.G
+1
Amit.g November 22, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Give me one good reason why should they pay 16000 crores for just 5mHz of spectrum which hardly offers quality services to users?? Why dont u do some more research & see still wats the due of BSNL which it has to pay to the GOVT. BSNL can manage & infact they are able to save Interest because govt wont charge interest for the due. look at private operators, they are ending up paying most of their revenues for the interest. 3G auction was the most unfair thing happened to operators & now this stupidity led to saking of more than 5000 employees in telecom!!! Dude think from 360 degrees
Saurabh gupta November 22, 2011 at 9:12 pm
For the 1st time i support the move of airtel vodafone and idea trio………
AP November 22, 2011 at 9:05 pm
@ashokumar
Intra-Circle Roaming in this case is where a non 3G operator has entered into an agreement with 3G operators in the same circle to allow the non 3G operator’s subscribers to subscribe to 3G services even though they do not have 3G spectrum in the circle. So while the subscriber is served and billed by the non 3G operator, his or her mobile device is transparently switched to roaming on the 3G network of the operator with whom the non 3G operator has entered into an agreement.
AP November 22, 2011 at 8:59 pm
@prasad
BSNL is a government company. That means they just paid their own money to themselves.
ashokumar November 22, 2011 at 8:58 pm
i request TT to please explain ICRA ,because no comment seems to be fully aware of what the Pvt telcos are doing.it is not about roaming but they are giving regular 3G service where they have not won the required license thus entering the market via backdoor.i don’t think everybody will see my comment.so please publish if you really care about this issue.
feedback????
yeshwanth November 22, 2011 at 8:54 pm
please be cool… private companies can pay 16000 crore.. with out spectrum lottery.. govt want to gave pan india licence, bsnl is getting pan india spectrum with out participate in spectrum fees from govt.. but they are working too slow.. policies are always wrong in govt.. only bsnl is getting help from govt. private companies is not getting help from govt.. govt are asking to high spectrum fees private companies.. please.. analyse.. policies are from govt and private.. but here govt is too wrong.
Abhijith November 22, 2011 at 8:50 pm
@Amit.G
ya cen % true . . . But now also PEOPLE behind upa . . Y its ? ? ? Cant understand that . .
prasad November 22, 2011 at 8:50 pm
@SAYANTAN
Ok, let them pay 16000 crores spetrum fee like BSNL, who is stoping them, (refer DOT site http://www.dot.gov.in/as/Auction%20of%20Spectrum%20for3G%20&%20BWA/new/index.htm)
ashokumar November 22, 2011 at 8:46 pm
i request TT to please explain ICRA ,because no comment seems to be fully aware of what the Pvt telcos are doing.it is not about roaming but they are giving regular 3G service where they have not won the required license thus entering the market via backdoor.i don’t think everybody will see my comment.so please publish if you really care about this issue.
yeshwanth November 22, 2011 at 8:45 pm
please cancel and refund the bsnl spectrum fees also.. y bsnl cant participate in spectrum buying.. y all private companies want to buy spectrum.. all companies want have one policies.. only y not for private, it should be govt to.. govt also want to follow policies. what polices for private also..
prasad November 22, 2011 at 8:43 pm
@AP
Bcz BSNL paid 16,000 crore for 3G spetrum and a,v,i,r companies just 10,000 crore (visit DOT site for details),
Jagannath November 22, 2011 at 8:36 pm
I fully agree with the operators here regarding ICRA.
Hope TRAI resolves this mess soon…….
Raaj November 22, 2011 at 8:32 pm
I support the operators.they are right! consider the following,if u had no vodafone,or airtel or idea in ur region and had to depend on bsnl’s worst and reliance’s lousy networks,could india experience the mobile revolution?The answer is NO.U can’t deny the fact tha even BSNL employees do keep an airtel or a vodafone as they know how dependable their organization is! If the operators paid so much to acquire the licences,they should be allowed intra-circle roaming also.
AP November 22, 2011 at 8:29 pm
@Aakash, Intra Circle Roaming is where I have the facility to switch to a different (3G licensee) operator within my home circle in roaming mode. For example, an Idea subscriber can use Airtel’s or Vodafone’s 3G network in his or her home circle where Idea does not have 3G spectrum but Airtel and Vodafone do.
Your use case seems different in the sense that your mobile operator does not have 3G in a foreign circle and that is where you can switch to the 3G network of another operator.
novicefreak1 November 22, 2011 at 8:27 pm
no tension..opt for BSNL…Pan India.3G.seena than ke….paid full amount..and offering services..not like these fellows….BUT PBLM WITH BSNL if u opt for 2G, the gprs speed is pathetic..my observation here in hyd city…gprs/edge capped at 56 kbps max touched around 70 kbps ..tested many times @ different places….speeds in 2G plan 3G mode capped at 139.5 kbps…max 149.5 kbps ,,,again tested many places in hyderabd.
but 3G in 3G plan good speeds…. though complete indoor coverage is not satisfactory “at few places”.
AP November 22, 2011 at 8:22 pm
@fammi, what is 900Htz? Do you know what you are talking about at all?
Do you know that BSNL and MTNL are among the worst at spectrum utilisation? They still have the largest amount of spectrum among all operators. They have more spectrum than they need and often for GSM, CDMA, 3G and even WiMAX!
Despite this, they are running into losses because the people have voted with their chequebooks and credit cards. Spectrum from BSNL and MTNL ought to be confiscated and opened up for auctions.
Saurabh gupta November 22, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Tell me one thing if you have have invested and you dont even get your money back how do you feel same is the case with there companies also they are investing billions of rupee and now the government is saying that you just sit with with licence and restricts the services they are not restricting operators but growth of the sector their cost will increased and less subscribers due to no roaming in other circles and their service provider not having licence and cost will ultimately passed to customers only be ready for expensive services as only 2-3 operators per circle only except BSNL
Abhijit November 22, 2011 at 8:20 pm
There should be some agreement of operators with TRAI… And Revenue should be share with the Government also as Idea, Airtel & Vodafone don’t have Pan India 3G Licenses..
But Provision of Intra- Circle 3G Roaming should be continued as we can use 3G of that operator also who don’t have 3G licenses…
epynic November 22, 2011 at 8:20 pm
F u TRAI !
Aakash Kumar November 22, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Govt has made enough money already on 3G spectrum auction. Now if operators are doing ICR tie-ups, I don’t see any harm in that. It’s good for customers on the other hand. If someone Is a heavy 3G user, they would want to have access to 3G network while traveling even outside home circle.
My personal experience on this: I had travelled to a place where my home operator didn’t have 3G coverage and no ICR. I had to apply for a temp prepaid connection with 3G services with a different operator. It took them almost 4 days to give me an activated prepaid connection with 3G service on it and by the time my stay was almost over. I think it’s in best interest of subscribers and it must continue
SAYANTAN November 22, 2011 at 8:11 pm
I SUPPORT THE OPERATORS.ROAMING IS GOOD FOR CUSTOMERS.
Amit.G November 22, 2011 at 8:08 pm
TRAI And DOT Are simply filled with useless people whose main intention is to trouble private operators and milk them as much as they want, and guys go thorough the history of telecom in india once u people will come to know how DOT raped private operators during 95, it was congress who ruled that time too. TRAI was formed in 97 whose main reason to be formed was to protect interest of operators, and the initiative was passed by NDA Government. Now again this bloody upa whic is filled with brainless rubber stamps is doin the same. BJP Govt was the best government the country ever witnessed and Atal bihari vajpeey was the best prime minister the country ever saw.
fammi November 22, 2011 at 8:08 pm
TRAI is doing right. Roaming should not be allowed in circle roaming should not be allowed. This will make huge revenue loss in the future.
Idea Airtel and Vodafone are the operators with Maximum Benefit in telecom Market. They have 900Htz in almost all circle and now they are threatening government for 3G. Govt should take back the spectrum from these 3 and should be put auction.
And not to allow these 3 Company tho participate in the Auction.
Government should refund BSNL and MTNL 3G Spectrum Free.
lakshmanan November 22, 2011 at 8:06 pm
airtel,vodafone and idea are a gang of thieves operating a cartel,government should not bend to their demands.Sunil bharti mittal is the biggest fraudster in india who has robbed almost all his subscribers of their money.
AP November 22, 2011 at 7:59 pm
I am always amused by naive comments that support the government fleecing corporations. Please understand that the excessive money that the government extracts from service providers only ends up making the service more expensive for YOU, the user.
All this windfall money only allows the government to get away with incompetence, inefficiency and more corruption. Remember, the more taxpayer money is squandered by the government on dubious schemes, the more money ends up in the pockets of politicians and government babus.
Ananda November 22, 2011 at 7:55 pm
one of the few instances when the operators are 100% correct, and their actions, justified! plus 1 to the operators!
AP November 22, 2011 at 7:53 pm
It was always going to be only a matter of time before TRAI took this up. The move by the three telcos to enter into such agreements has actually benefited subscribers.
Instead of trying to abolish the practice, the TRAI should instead impose extra charges on these telcos in such a manner that subscribers benefit the most, and then telcos and the GoI. There is no point in imposing artificial administrative barriers when technological solutions exist to provide better and more useful services to subscribers.
avisek November 22, 2011 at 7:51 pm
offcourse TRI is doing right.we don’t want to loose our revenue because it helps our country development.All 3g user should use bsnl,because only bsnl has 3g licenses all over india.
josephjoychristopher November 22, 2011 at 7:51 pm
good work from trai no more airtel, vodafone, idea 3g means customers of these operator have to trow their 3g locked datacard
ved November 22, 2011 at 7:50 pm
gud………….
Abhishek Agrawal November 22, 2011 at 7:49 pm
I feel TRAI is right, its unfair advantage to those who did not get the licence and did not have to pay high fees and invest for infrastructure.
ashokumar November 22, 2011 at 7:48 pm
this is a open cartel daring the govt. if the govt succumbs this pressure then it will be a bad example of blackmail politics.the govt should refund the spectrum fees and reauction the same while including non telecom companies ( like RIL bought infotel).and a lesson should be taught to the fraudsters.law is same for all, everybody should abide by it and if not ,should be punished.
karann November 22, 2011 at 7:39 pm
trai is doing right things. plus 1 to trai