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Supreme Court Asks Why Jio Shouldn’t Be Paying AGR Dues for Using Spectrum of RCom  

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Tanay Singh
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14/08/2020 7:39 pm  

AGR (Adjusted Gross Revenue) dues have become a major pain for the telecom industry of India. It has affected not only the operators that are actively providing telecom services, but also the operators which have gone insolvent. Back on October…


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Vikas
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14/08/2020 10:12 pm  

Hehe.... this is really gonna be intresting. AGR.. AGR..AGR ... Whoa!


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Prithvi
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14/08/2020 10:23 pm  

That's true - Reliance Jio should clear dues for using RCom's spectrum. Also Vodafone India may get a fifteen year period to pay off AGR dues. Airtel should demand a similar deal. This way AGR dues won't be an issue for long.


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saket
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14/08/2020 10:38 pm  

BIG BANG theory from JIO-Rcom.

In 2015-16, Both ambani has decided future, and now just acting as role play.

Rcom has srtated winding up in 2015 itself .By then rcom has asked user to upgrade to 4G hotspot device which will work on partner network, JIO.

JIO was hungry for spectrum thus made sharing+trading agreement, as per law then, 50% Specrum cap.

Now question remain is, why DOT and TRAI still publishing result with active subsciber base? why Rcom has 2019 bounce /defaulted on Spectrum payment.

JIO lawyer along with SBI laywer will assist RP from rcom to say that. JIO havent used spectrum from rcom, it was rcoms miniscule subsciber base of few thousand, raoming pact was runningto use 4G service on 800Mhz band

Secondly as VIL and aircel claming we are running in losses, Rcom would say, we havnt generated any REvenue, so no question of AGR dues under IBC.

UVARCL, may back out plan as per instruction of jio, Because jio may grab same and suitable spectrum in october this year.

Or SC and DOT may ammend law that spectrum cant be sold, only traded
OR Scrap out AGR and SUC, beacuse most of operator using autioned spectrum paid at full price (with deffered payment facility) so AGR and SUC should be scrap,as it was old rule.

In either case its JIO win or JIO run Show with its puppet ( rcom, RP, DOT, NCLT and UVARCL)

benificiaries are jio and other telco, and airtel always come to just grab Butter.


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Neha Jain
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14/08/2020 10:42 pm  

But Saket you have a valid point but it think mostly it will be a win win for Jio only and everyone knows the reason for it


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Vishal
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14/08/2020 11:33 pm  

Lol at last someone (SC) is there to make Jio pay for it.


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Raja
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15/08/2020 12:20 am  

Offtopic: even if I want to contribute in saving vil from collapse it is just impossible to bear it... ookla Speed test to local vodafone server shows 30mbps but when check Netflix fast website then it shows 80kbps. Netflix just doesn work. Same is result on Google speedtest server. Also some apps just don't work , it will say "check internet connection"

So how does one stays on vil even if one has emotional value attached with brand. I have applied porting today to jio. Saying adieu to 15 yrs old hutch connection.
I still remeber vodafone resolution team calling and talking in polish and proper English during 2007 and 14 days . Vodafone Stores used to be few but housed very professional and visiually appealing executives . Neatly dressed and sparten clean stores with chilled AC. Offcourse those cost structure cannot be supported on current tarrifs and due to same reason vodafone is holding idea hand. I have seen highs of vodafone when they took over from hutch in 2007 to present days of company. My personal opinion is merger of vodafone with idea was bad idea but I am sure VODAFONE might not had better choice than to join hands with idea. Few people are still optimistic of ita survival but franklly I don't think so. Trust me they are loosing subscibers fasy


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SACHIN
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15/08/2020 7:45 am  

frm yesterday i got very verY less pings on vdfn ...they imprvng...but very slowly...


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KGF
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15/08/2020 8:35 am  

For what? Something they had no hand in?


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KGF
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15/08/2020 8:36 am  

Suicidal to give 15 years time. Vodafone will loot and run away again. Its in their blood.


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RAHUL
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15/08/2020 8:53 am  

Rcom should also be made to pay the pending crores of Rs (unused balance) to users while they shutdown


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SS (Shivang Singh)
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15/08/2020 9:24 am  

Hi Raja

Usually, I'm the silent spectator most of the time but you are absolutely right with the internet issue. Vodafone has drastically improved speeds in my location and circle overall but there is definitely some problem with routing.

All usual internet traffic like Whatsapp, Youtube, FB, etc work absolutely fine but I am also facing issues with some websites where data throughput is almost negligible. It is also an issue with CDN of some websites.

I think there is something fucked up with Vodafone's servers and I wish they resolve it soon.


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Sonia
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15/08/2020 9:36 am  

Its true VF has improved its speed across India, but yes at times some website does have issue but not sure it has something to do with CDN or something .


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Vishal
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15/08/2020 9:41 am  

@kgf Jio is the only telecom in better financial position what's wrong in paying spectrum payments for rcom's 850Mhz which Jio is using.


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Sonia
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15/08/2020 9:43 am  

Ohh yeah lot of users are yet to get the balance back .


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Raja
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15/08/2020 9:46 am  

Sachin, yes pings reduced on servers like Bharti Airtel to 103ms from 175 to 200ms. But 103 ms is also very high for local server . Also what intellegence does it take to count multimedia content provider like netflix, Amazon prime, sony liv, hotstar etc and improve latency with them. Peering is complicated art, only airtel has been able to achieve by bringing data to edge computing and that's how they work with all cdn providers. It involves money too but you need to spend that kind of money to provide optimal experience to your users. There is no escaping.

But my problem is I was not seeing any hope of they spending money in future to improve this. Like promoters are saying they have written off investment in vil and will not spend. They are loosing subscibers also fast, which pushed me to do mnp. Atleast promoters should come out aand say that no matter what we are here to stay. It cannot be tactics to show judiciary that they don't have money and other side lose subscribers also which is dangerous


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 9:52 am  

Mitron, has jio disabled missed call alert feature???. I just recently observed that I am not receiving missed call alerts on my jio no. While this may be happening since many months but never had chance to observe.

I am not able to find option to activate Jio MCA on internet. Will speak with customer care but first wanted to check with you guys...


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 9:55 am  

This is already accounted by IRP of rcom under operational creditor category. But we all know its customers will get ,👎


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Vinayak Pai
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15/08/2020 9:57 am  

It is like making the tenant paying for the fault of the landlord. The tenant has a limited liability compared to the landlord.


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Dr Jatin
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15/08/2020 9:58 am  

I don't think its included you sure about it ?


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 9:59 am  

Oye sonia, leave all this cdn, pings etc....
BTW put your pic so that we all can see you...🤩


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Asi
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15/08/2020 10:13 am  

Try to save BSNL not VIL


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Asi
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15/08/2020 10:19 am  

Vodafone Idea speed improved because they have less load to carry on their network


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saket
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15/08/2020 10:51 am  

Yes , since many month not received any MCA alert. I think this was JIO strategy to penetrate market.

Since most were not on VOLTE or out of coverage in initial 3 years, thus jio given MCA free.
Now didnt received MCa niether on Airtel or JIO.


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Aniruddha Dhar
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15/08/2020 10:53 am  

Jio MCA only works between jio to jio.


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 10:55 am  

Folks who are thinking that jio will have to pay AGR for using rcom spectrum but should understand how much???? Hahahahaha

It is peanuts... Should be around 50 crores. It is laible to pay agr dues from time of jio inception and not from inception of rcom. Also agr dues will be calucated basis 2.5mhz spectrum used under SHARING arrangement. While my calculations may not be right but the amount will be near abouts as the total agr paid by jio was 196 crore. So more agr to be paid for using rcom spectrum cannot be more than that...


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saket
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15/08/2020 10:57 am  

Vodafone awalys top among downalod and upload speed from 3G era.
but now cant tell about CDN network, But they route traffic in some different way which result in Very Smooth or Just below averagw based on Server or CDN or apps.

In simple word .Its 30 story apartmrnt with lavish garden,gym, amenities, just next to SLUM Area with only 1 approach road.


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 10:59 am  

Saket bhai, it is working in airtel free of cost as I checked. Only jio removed it seems.


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 11:01 am  

Dr jatin, yes it is accounted by DOT under operational creditor to IRP of rcom and aircel


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 11:02 am  

Hi Neha!!! How r u


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SACHIN
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15/08/2020 11:06 am  

only jio numbers MCA recvd...non jio number not..almost year ago they stop it..and reason behind this is to save 6ps when no iuc implemented...
.


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SACHIN
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15/08/2020 11:09 am  

bhai my ping is just 20ms on jio...bhartibairtl still i get very bad ping hope they fix ..theu almost fix 70%just wait n watch..bettrt thn cheater jio....


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Sonia
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15/08/2020 11:12 am  

Chetan, how can I enable the pic ? Its showing some angry face next to my pic I did not upload it


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 11:13 am  

Vinayak pai, but tenant is still staying in that house while owner has abandoned. So sc is searching for even insect staying in that house who can pay property tax on owners behalf then what can tenant do. Hahahahahaha.

Sc has clearly told that AGR money is on different footing as it is sovereign money. So all resolution process approved by nclt nclat will not work in SC. sc can take very vague and stupid decision in order to safegaurd AGR dues...


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 11:20 am  

@sonia , go to tt forum page and create account and upload you profile pic and then when you comment here it will show


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Thamilan daa
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15/08/2020 11:20 am  

All options under call forwarding facility (*#62# ; *62*mobilenumber# ; *21*mobilenumber# ; *#21# etc) is not working in jio.


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Thamilan daa
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15/08/2020 11:23 am  

Let lootafone and jio pay together. Why dragging the case only for lootafone?.


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saket
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15/08/2020 1:05 pm  

Exactly correct Chetan,
Till 14th august , i was under DEEP Confusion, why Rcom having 10-20K Subsciber, which are niether prepaid/postpaid, neither GSM not CDMA.
Those must be corporate connection for ADAG group under WIFI hotspot running on jios LTE network.

This was done to keep Sharing agreement and Intra-circle roaming agreement alive.

After Yesterdays comment from JIOs lawyer. Its clearly said, JIO PAID FULL AGR, AND NOT USING, BUT ONLY SHARING SPECTRUM WITH RCOM.

Also Dot must have already recovered,means recovering SUC from jio(rcom ) for amount of spectrum shared, other than which is lying idle.

So if all SC Oder DOT to Recover AGR due from rcom, DOTs hands are tight and can only recover few crores after showing records that SUC and market linked price to liberalise spectrum is duly paid.

So Its JIO who wins and may ask Rcom to pay 50-500 crores for small amount of spectrum used from 2016-20.

Secondly UVARCL will sell to higest bidder which will be J.I.O.
this all may take 1-3 hearing and expected to finish final order by 31st August.

Secondly DOT/SC/RCOM/Airtel and VIL may jointly agree to put pull stop on AGR and SUC from autioned spectrum.
Which will be base for upcoming spectrum and future 5G aution as well.

SO SCs attempt to recover Govt due is correct direction resulting in fraction paid and Costly affair for policy fixed to end AGR/SUC regime. Which is WIN-WIN for Telco/investor/customer, govt has to wait.


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BSNL USER
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15/08/2020 1:09 pm  

just upload pic to gravtor your pic will show to all comments without creating account


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BSNL USER
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15/08/2020 1:11 pm  

chotte ka bhai ka karza bada bhai chukayega 😛


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BSNL USER
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15/08/2020 1:12 pm  

yeh nakli chetan hai girls pe lattu jyada hai


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 1:22 pm  

Mein asli hu bhai. I feel like flirting today.


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Chhota Chetan
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15/08/2020 1:25 pm  

Simp.


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Chhota Chetan
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15/08/2020 1:26 pm  

Simp.


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RIVU DUTTA
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15/08/2020 2:22 pm  

MCA does not work if wifi Calling is on.


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Thamilan daa
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15/08/2020 3:14 pm  

KGF :
Well said.


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Thamilan daa
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15/08/2020 3:14 pm  

Bsnl user : Use only English. Stop hindi.


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Thamilan daa
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15/08/2020 3:17 pm  

This news says that Jio is using the RCDMA's 800 MHz for 4G.

I din't think Jio is using the 800 MHz for 4G. It is only using 850, 1800 and 2300 MHz.


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Thamilan daa
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15/08/2020 4:04 pm  

If you repeat, naan Thamilil paesa vaendiyadhu varum.


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Vikas
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15/08/2020 4:28 pm  

No USSD support in Jio's IP network as far as i know.


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Kirti Khurana
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15/08/2020 4:30 pm  

Have some common sense for God sake! Sud..


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Telecomnerd
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15/08/2020 4:35 pm  

800 Mhz band contains frequencies from 790 Mhz to 862 Mhz so they're referring to the band not any particular frequency.


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VIL LOVER
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15/08/2020 8:20 pm  

Hey sudha your translation in hindi


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VIL LOVER
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15/08/2020 8:22 pm  

Hehehe 😛 LMAO 😂😂😂


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Kirti Khurana
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15/08/2020 9:25 pm  

ille


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Kunal
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15/08/2020 9:40 pm  

Jio is using only part of 800 -850 MHZ spectrum of rcom under spectrum sharing agreement since April 2016.

Actual 38 % of 800 -850 MHz spectrum that rcom owns in this band.

Jio has no sharing with rcom for 1800 , 900 & 2100 MHz spectrum which rcom owns.

As per Jio , they have paid all agr money generated through the sharing agreement till date . Also spectrum money about 85 % is already paid to the government . Spectrum is expiring in July 2021.

Legally , Jio is correct , so won't be liable for any agr money .

Also Jio will not be liable for any agr dues of rcom ( pre 2016 ) as Jio was non existant .

Problem will be - how government will recover agr from bankrupt Telco's (rcom & Aircel) .

If court cancels spectrum selling , then all operational creditors will loose heavy & also void - Airtel will come under more financial pressure as they have recieved finance against their spectrum holding.


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Chetan
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15/08/2020 10:23 pm  

Kunal, nothing will happen to airtel. Airtel entire loan book is in dollar and raised in bonds and foreign currency and through equity route. Very menuscle loan from banks. They r safe.

I don't even see a problem coming on jio head also. It is rcom and aircel resolution and banks lending to them who will face music because sc will cancel spectrum and will ask dot to auction it in next auctions and recover agr . Who will buy that much qty is something to be guessed.

Now coming to vodafone idea. They will get time and they will pay for 1 or 2 yrs and then will shutdown. Dot will recover only 60k crore in total from airtel and vil and spectrum auctioned of bankrupt telco as against 1.6 lakh crore. This is what happens when you drag cases for 20 yrs in successive courts.


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Kunal
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16/08/2020 12:32 am  

Agree Chetan , courts have also contributed in the problem by taking over 15 years to give verdict .

If it was simple open & shut case , then why did the court take such a long time.

Courts should take a lenient view of the situation .

I think penalty & interest should have been reduced as it is very clear that the penalty & interest will be recovered now from customers through price increase.

Secondly for spectrum selling -

spectrum is sold to Telco's through auction & to the highest bidder for a period of 20 years .

Telco's pay upfront down payment & after that pay regular installments over the period of 20 years against spectrum . Government gives option of up front full payment or else as scattered Payments with interest cost as mentioned above .

If the spectrum is fully paid or the installments are being regularly made by the Telco's , then courts can not stop Telco's to sell spectrum to competitors in same business.

Trai has clearly defined spectrum selling , trading & sharing details in 2015. It is legal & with in rite of the Telco to sell spectrum but subject to that they have not defaulted in other government dues.

In Aircel & rcom case -both are paying installments or have promised to pay government the spectrum Payments with interest but are defaulters in agr dues.

So now court will not allow rcom & Aircel to sell spectrum . The operational creditors which were ready to take a cut of 50% of the total dues , will now not even recover 15% of their total dues .


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Sandeep
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16/08/2020 11:04 am  

Its working fine with my jio


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Bharat Khanna
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16/08/2020 11:18 am  

Wait your confusing VIL with RCOm


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Chetan
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16/08/2020 1:46 pm  

Hahahahahaha.

BTW Jokes apart vodafone has removed speed check option from its app. Why ???


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Kiran Fernandes | Goa
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16/08/2020 7:58 pm  

Gonna switch to Chortel, since I already have a Jio sim. One friend got 73Mbps on his airtel sim at his place, whereas Jio doesn't hit past 20Mbps in most areas without ca


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Kiran Fernandes | Goa
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16/08/2020 7:59 pm  

Switch from Idea to Chortel*


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Singh
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16/08/2020 11:11 pm  

As per 2020 who is having more spectrum in India basis Airtel or Jio. And if we have to keep only one SIM kindly suggest which one will be better Airtel or Jio


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saket
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16/08/2020 11:43 pm  

@kiran, you already saying Chortel, then ready to be get looted by chor for getting attracted 73Mbps???
Please realign ur thought. I also moved from jio to bsnl 3G after using jio service for more than 3.5years


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KRISH
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16/08/2020 11:59 pm  

Jio is using only 850mhz from Rcom i guess. Its not 800mhz


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Asi
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17/08/2020 12:36 am  

Airtel having more spectrum than Jio
VIL having highest
Post auctions situation will change


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Chetan
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17/08/2020 7:10 am  

Kiran, airtel has done investments to improve network experience. No doubt but end of the day it is still wireless network which will start to show congestion once users starts burning more and more data on it. These speeds of 75 Mbps may not last long as more and more vil customers jump the ship on to airtel. Even some jio customers will also rebalance on its network due to congestion in jio itself. So never chose operator basis peak speeds. Just see which telco is more consistent in coverage and provide workable speeds to do all internet related work

For ex, in Bangalore now I rarely see these speeds of 75 to 100mbps on airtel. It is still there in few areas but only at certain time of the day and such areas have reduced in nos. In many areas of Bangalore, one gets speeds like 2-5mbps now. Infact vil is giving better speeds in many areas of Bangalore as network loads decreases and rebalances..

Actually after reduced no. of options left in the market, I am inclined towards bsnl and wants to port my secondary no.


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Kiran Fernandes | Goa
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17/08/2020 11:07 pm  

Honestly though, Chortel and VIL are giving almost similar plans(1499/98 plan is what I need and they both have it. If I need extra data, I will select the 251 plan for 50GB data with a validity of 30 days(uses pack validity on Airtel which is a plus)), and VIL's future looks bleak. Secondly, VIL still hasn't integrated in Goa yet, and they don't seem to be doing the integration any time soon. About Jio, while Jio is always gonna be my primary sim, It's a disappointment that they have crappy spectrum in band 5. But that should hopefully change next year as most of you assured me the auctions will be held before the end of this year.

Even though the tower is nearby in my place in Goa, it's blocked by a lot of trees, and a house or two. The tower is a BSNL one,

Idea's speed is crappy all across Goa for the past 12 to 15 months, and many have moved to other operators... I bet BSNL CrapG is no better here. Unfortunately, Chortel is the only stable network in the country.

Mukesh Ambani made Jio to target Airtel, but VIL got affected, including other smaller players, and his lil bro too.

Anyway, it is what it is. VIL is surely gonna disappear before 2025. Might as well port to the chors until i find myself moving out of India, which will probably happen in the next 5 to 6 years.


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Kiran Fernandes | Goa
 Kiran Fernandes | Goa
(@Kiran Fernandes | Goa)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 174
17/08/2020 11:54 pm  

Yes, Airtel has done a lot of investments, and have worked on their network. Airtel has capped the speeds at 200Mbps whereas Jio is capped at 100Mbps. Not that I'm complaining, but I need some good speed, say above 10Mbps across Goa. Some times Jio's speed goes to a crawl in certain areas.


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ramesh
 ramesh
(@ramesh)
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Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 4
24/08/2020 1:31 pm  

Why Supreme Court is soft on Jio? It asks Airtel, Voda Idea to pay AGR. In case of Jio it is asking for explanation and now. Bias is not good for the nation as well as customers.


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