TDSAT Quashes All Penalties Imposed by DoT on Bharti Airtel, Idea and Vodafone in 3G Intra-circle Roaming

India’s Telecom Disputes Settlement Appellate Tribunal (TDSAT) today quashes all penalties imposed by Department of Telecommunications (DoT) on Bharti Airtel, Idea Cellular and Vodafone and allows 3G intra-circle roaming facility by saying the pacts (3G ICRA) didn’t violate any license conditions.

3G Map

In March 18, 2013, DoT slapped a penalty of the Rs. 350 crore on Bharti Airtel to violating license conditions And a Dedication the 3G services By a Intra-Circle roaming pacts which according the DoT is illegal. Later Into April, analogous penalty Was imposed On the Vodafone, Idea Cellular, Which the Company were asked For pay a Rs. 550 crore and Rs. 300 Crore in Respectively, Bharti Airtel,Idea Cellular, Vodafone India, & had entered The intra-circle roaming pacts (3G ICRA). Which they shared 3G spectrum Into circles in which they did not Personally own If spectrum,

In September 24, 2013, the Supreme Court has asked Bharti Airtel and other private operators to approach telecom tribunal TDSAT with its plea against a DoT order asking it to stop providing intra-circle 3G roaming service outside licensed circles by entering into pacts (3G ICRA) with other service-providers.

After this verdict on 3G ICRA by TDSAT, Rajan Mathews, director general, Cellular Operators Association of India (COAI) said that “TDSAT order now gives telcos a stronger case in terms of penalty and operators can now remove contingency liabilities set aside for 3G pacts. This judgment also benefits customers who will have more choices now besides operators, who can now freely invest in network coverage. We hope DoT does not challenge TDSAT’s order on 3G pacts in Supreme Court.”

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  • SS April 30, 2014 9:18 pm

    @Ash
    you people simply quarral without any reason here. What Saurabh said to you was well under the limit of decency specified here. Regarding some words, they are used against BSNL not for you. He is a polite person. What you guys are going are commenting without any studies or home work which really annoys us a lot. Like for example you say ICRA is illegal. Yes, sure its illegal but legal in license terms and that the avoid group exploits. If i get millions of rupees for doing nothing then i will happily accept it as i am not such honest person and one should not be so honest in this world full of crooks. So same is the case with AVOID, they got opportunity and they utilised it very well.

    Now, regarding bsnl, as you are in tamil nadu as i guess, you may not be aware of its pathetic condition in north. Same is mtnl delhi. BSNL always remains a step back because of them not because of AVOID. When i travel in trains, i realise how much AVOID has invested in india. They deserve that position.

    Most of the people i see here criticise vodafone just because its foreign company. Remember that vodafone has invested billions of dollars in india and that adds up in the financial strengh of india. I am a Modi supporter and i am sure there will be enormous foreign investment if Modi comes to power. The spy case on vodafone is just a blame game not yet proved as that time VODAFONE HAD NO CONTROL OVER UNDERSEA OFC.

    • sunil kushwaha May 1, 2014 11:09 am

      ++1

    • Jagannath May 9, 2014 9:22 pm

      +1

  • Ash April 30, 2014 7:44 pm

    Pls observe the posts of Sourabh throgh out this thread. He is attacking the critics all over…”childish, foolish, enlighten urself” and uses indecent words like “bulsht”… I started this confrontation voluntarily to initiate a change. Now, govt vs AVOID issue….I side with govt and I know each party has its on issue. While stating that only BSNL network is poor, I know that’s a sectorian view. In different circles, only market leaders keep better quality, while the under dogs have poor coverage n QoS. What ant Airtel nw in Kerala n Voda nw in Tamilnadu? The issue of Call Centre is a genuine one, however I felt that you can directly walk to a Customer Care of BSNL and resolve issues with live persons while you will never be lucky to meet a direct employee of AVOID. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Try to make the criticism unbiased and couteous…give respect and earn it.

    • Krishan April 30, 2014 9:32 pm

      I agree that discussion should be unbiased,
      if anyone has problem with Govt. then by writing comments here will not give any results. if someone wants really a change in Govt system then go by proper channel. “Government of India” is for all Indians.

  • Joy April 30, 2014 6:26 pm

    I agree with Mr. Saurabh completely and he is right dat bsnl is just a piece of crap. If u want to waste ur money choose bsnl.

    Ash, calm down

  • Ash April 30, 2014 5:36 pm

    @ Sourabh
    You please stop personal attack and learn to accept criticism. Stop acting as the stooge of AVOID CEO. I just oppose the fraudulent way of business done by AVOID group who have no National integrity. Their share holders are mainly foreign nationals. Vodaphone has been booked for sharing confidential Customer data with British spy agencies. I hate these anti nationals. Hope, if Modi comes to power, he will throw them out. BSNL and MTNL, being govt companies, have many legacy issues. But ultimately we , the people of India are the owners of BSNL-MTNL. We should attempt to correct them. Their profit will benefit the public while AVOID profit will benefit foreigners. Jai Ho..FO

    • Joy April 30, 2014 6:37 pm

      Bro he is nt attacking or criticizing u but bsnl and may be he also wants bsnl to grow and highlighting their problems so that they correct it. Critics know better than we normal users do. What kind of criticism u want him to accept? I read ur previos reply to him which semeed to be down market . TT did good by editing it as it was cheap. I request both of u 2 calm down. Be happy n use whatever u want. :)

  • idea88 April 30, 2014 12:23 pm

    @esmail, Darshan thk u. how they charged bill god nows. But reidiculas that u charged rs50 extra!! have u filed complaint in pgportal that time? i am using rcom 3g . speed is 200 KB . smetis is it goes to 800 KB . oof topic. – it will win win situation fr Aircel, tata docomo gsm if dot not win in SC.. anyways what is date of NEXT SC ORDER???

  • Ash April 30, 2014 12:10 pm

    @Sourabh, I was an Idea customer in past, but ported out from those frauds. Your account balance will just keep on disappearing with all these “AVOID” companies (ie ‘avoid them’). And if you call their customer care, they will charge those calls too (Can u imagine such a fraud any where else?) It’s true that BSNL personnel and customer care not as responsive as these private operators, but we can at least rely them.

    • Saurabh April 30, 2014 12:50 pm

      @Ash,

      What you think that over 45 crore customers who are having AvoId sims. They use it for quality which people like you avoid and use worst service just to save Rs.20-30. Stop talking with childish mind here and keep the discussion to the matter and not using bad words for employees of telecom operators.

      I have all the AVoId SIM and in last 6-7 years never faced unnecessary balance deductions with anyone. As far as charging for CC is concerned, I always call 198 and it is toll free. What BSNL is providing by having a toll free CC is whenever you call, IVRS will tell you to wait 30-60 minutes. Only you can rely on BSNL CC. Majority of people can’t as they don’t have 30-60 minutes hold time to waste and even after that your problem will went unheard.

      This is my last reply here in this article to you. Better you enlighten yourself. Problems are with every company and customer chooses one which have lesser. FO

    • SS April 30, 2014 1:04 pm

      I use airtel, never ever faced a problem of balance deduction. I don’t know why people complain on this and for your info- bsnl falsely deducted balance many times for all the stupid stuff like xplore pack, bsnl music station, etc.

      • Darshan April 30, 2014 2:55 pm

        @SS
        Even I have not faced such problem but in 2010 I was using airtel maharashtra…That number was 3 years old…What happen is it was a prepaid number and one fine day I got a messege that thankyou for converting your number to postpaid and request has been processed…i was shock to see that and I was in 10th that year and I was so much afraid of it…i said my dad about it when he went to airtel care and asked who said them to convert in postlaid and they had no answee for it and rental was 699or something and they were unable to convert back to prepaid so I had to throw that sim…All my balance not much around 100rs and my number was lost…After 3 months some airtel person called on my lansline and asked for reason of disconnection after saying the reason he was shocked and said he would return the same number without any charges…I got my simcard via courier again without submitting documents again!..

        • RAVI - kolkata July 26, 2014 11:33 pm

          I use BSNL but I have never faced false balance deduction for last 4 years. My parents use airtel and always complain of balance being deducted. I try to contact airtel CC and get entangled in a merry go round press this press that and it takes 4 to 5 attempts to reach CC that takes my 30 minutes. Then whats the difference.

  • Tiju Mattam April 30, 2014 12:00 pm

    Before 2g Auction the number of service provider is limited to 6. Maximum 4 companies can provide GSM services and only 2 companies can provide CDMA services. A. Raja remove these limit by inviting applcation and number of companies moved upto 12 per region.
    When 2010 3G auction started the number is limited to 4 including Bsnl. So other service providers aggressively bid for 3G spectrum to be in the four. ICRA by AVoId is Fraud.
    Before 2g Auction the number of service provider is limited to 6. Maximum 4 companies can provide GSM services and only 2 companies can provide CDMA services. A. Raja remove these limit by inviting application and number of companies moved upto 12 per region.
    When 2010 3G auction started the number is limited to 4 including Bsnl. So other service providers aggressively bid for 3G spectrum to be in the four. ICRA by AVoId is Fraud.
    ICRA is if Idea have 3G license in Kerala and it din’t have the same in Karnataka then they can tie up with Airtel which have 3G license in Karnataka and it didn’t have 3g license in Kerala. So by ICRA an Idea Kerala customer can use Airtel 3G when he is in roaming in Karnataka and likewise a Karnataka airtel customer can use Idea’s 3G service when is in Kerala but airtel can’t sell their 3G products in Kerala because they do not have the 3G license in Kerala. the same rule applicable to Idea in Karnataka.
    Unfortunately it happened. Airtel sold their 3G products in Kerala and they have 3G customers in Kerala. this is illegal not permitted by DoT. the same thing happened in Karnataka by Idea.

  • Saurabh April 30, 2014 10:35 am
  • Aam Admi April 30, 2014 9:32 am

    Allowing these telcos to provide services in an area where they have no license is like driving a car with a stolen/fake number plate.

    I can’t believe that TDSAT will take such an irresponsible decision as i could not find any official information regarding this order.
    There is only claims.

    • Global April 30, 2014 10:19 am

      There is nothing wrong in this decision. The telcos are allowed IRCA only in the circles where they have spectrum. Spectrum has been liberalized in National Telecom Policy 2013 making operators free to deploy any service (2G/3G/4G) on spectrum bands, so why put conditions on ICRA? This is a win win situation for both telcos and consumers. I get pissed off when i enter Mumbai circle with my Maharashtra idea and have to switch to 2G. Now with ICRA, i can use 3G in Mumbai (and other circles) as well!

      • Aam Admi April 30, 2014 11:12 am

        No. AirTel was providing 3G in KL circle, where they have no license to operate 3G service with the help of Vodafone/Idea. I guess that’s illegal.

        I think you mentioned about Inter-Circle roaming.

    • Saurabh April 30, 2014 10:24 am

      @Aam Aadmi, TDSAT is not allowing 3G ICRA. Court or any other any other appointed authorities just look at terms and conditions given at time of auction or any other allotment and they can’t bend the rules. They look at legal papers and not make decision on their own and papers by DoT tells whole story.

      Maybe companies are not holding licenses in some specific areas but they hold UASL for 3G which allows ICRA. In past some people asked me Videocon and Uninor also don’t hold 3G license and if they start providing 3G services with other operators, will it be fair? The answer is neither participated in 3G auction and neither have UASL for 3G services like 7 companies have which participated.

      The terms were applied to UASL not to 3G spectrum itself. I think BSNL should also take advantage of it and start leasing network where they have strong presence.

  • ash April 30, 2014 8:36 am

    When can we expect airtel to launch services in Maharashtra or any other service area considering they are already providing 3g for existing users. It shouldn’t take more than a few days.

  • Kaushik Roy April 29, 2014 10:30 pm

    BSNL revised their roam plan of 199 to per second plan from per minute
    Now new roaming plan 199 will give 1.5p/ sec outgoing calls in roaming also including mumbai and delhi and incoming all india free (except J & K)
    So BSNL is doing well in roaming plans

    • Darshan April 30, 2014 9:01 am

      There is no use of taking this plan as with STV 90 you get same benefits for 90days so for.180 days its 180rs…
      I understand that there is a saving by not recharging for plan voucher of 42rs which you need to do 6 months but some people dont have to do this plan voucher..
      Also the tariffs for home is also 1.5p/s so taking this plan is noway a good choice….
      Its good for those who are compulsary live in a non homenetwork for atleast 6 months and whose validity is going to expire in that period…

    • DUANE April 30, 2014 9:55 am

      OFF TOPIC

      • Kaushik Roy April 30, 2014 12:10 pm

        I know it is an off topic comment. But there is no chance of modifying any comment in Telecom talk to another relevant post. Once you submit the comment there is no chance of editing like facebook

  • Dr. Ravi Kiran Nudurupati April 29, 2014 10:15 pm

    election stunt….

    • Saurabh April 30, 2014 10:15 am

      It would have been an election stunt if Mr. Kapil Sibbal had come in favor of ICRA. This is an order by TDSAT which was appointed by SC for this case to be heard. Companies have just kept proof on tables that DoT given nod for such agreements before auction and later tried to misguide court by calling it illegal and try to confuse the matter by saying different laws were for 2G and 3G spectrum while they cleared said before auction that rules apply to license and not to spectrum.

      DoT just forgot to mention that Intra Circle roaming will be allowed only if both operators hold license for a circle instead they just given nod to ICR if any one of the operator holding license.

      TDSAT pointed out right that this would have been illegal if AVoId had made an cartel and keep a large quantum of spectrum with them by buying it in auction and not allowed other companies to take 3G spectrum. They also nullified DoT claims that this would affect other operators as quantum of spectrum is not increasing after having such agreements and it remains the same.

      Now even Reliance-Aircel-Tata which had recently agreed for Inter Circle Roaming are welcoming this and said they will extend the terms of agreements to Intra Circle Roaming also.

      Whatever people will say here but these agreements are in consumer as well as country’s interest if DoT applies Spectrum Usage Charges to all the companies using it on one license. If some people think that BSNL the so called Pan-India 3G operator will suffer then it is wrong as if they provide quality services to their users no one will leave it and come to AvoId or ART group. BSNL is dying because of themselves not of competitors.

      People keep on shouting BSNL has largest infra, they have this, they have that but one thing which end customer needs is quality which they don’t have. If they are that much strong infra, why indoor coverage in most parts of Haryana and other northern regions remains nil even they live close to BTS. Why 3G signal is not there for at-least 7-15 days in a month. It keeps on playing hide n seek. :P

  • abhisehk chatterjee April 29, 2014 7:52 pm

    BSNL to offer 4G services from next year, talks on with Reliance Jio..

    • Vijay April 29, 2014 9:47 pm

      4g seriously.. Bsnl lazya$$ idiots don’t improve their network quality and they not even planned to expand evdo… $hit company. . Plz bsnl don’t spoil 4g stay in ur old world…

    • Darshan April 30, 2014 8:45 am

      It is fake news
      BSNL being a PSU will never join hands with Private companies…

      • Saurabh April 30, 2014 10:57 am

        @Darshan this is not a fake news. BSNL can lease out their infrastructure to any private operator and monetize their assets. Having a PSU tag doesn’t means you can’t allow others to use your asset. Reliance Jio will use BSNL optical fibre network and BTS for their 4G roll outs and BSNL in return will get rent from RJio. What’s wrong in this?

        • Darshan April 30, 2014 11:47 am

          @Saurabh
          Abhishek had said BSNL will roll out 4G using Reliance Jio network n I think thats not possible…
          what u said about reliance jio using bsnl infrastructure is possible but it is not possible that. Bsnl will use jio for rolling out 4G

  • sachin April 29, 2014 7:13 pm

    then their is any chances to srart icra by service prover in non licence ares such as idea using airte 3g in mumbai can Idea custmr frm mumbai activate 3g now onwardss????

  • Esmail April 29, 2014 7:02 pm

    If TDSAT’s decision holds good even in Supreme court then it is certain that Reliance, Aircel and DOCOMO will also adopt this model and extend their Inter circle 3G roaming agreement to Intra circle roaming and will start to offer 3G service on each other’s network in circles where they do not hold license. That will level the playing field evenly between the incumbents and the new comers. Though I have a strong feeling that there will be a 3G auction very soon in India, since the spectrum swap deal with the armed forces has already gone through smoothly and telecom ministry has 15 to 20 MHz of 3G spectrum ready to be auctioned in all circles. Once the new government comes to power we will see a 3G auction again.

    • idea88 April 30, 2014 12:08 am

      @esmail… how to reliance billing plans?? they charge extra unvanted bills?? simlary wat they do in sucking money from preoaid ac?

      • Darshan April 30, 2014 8:42 am

        @idea888 Yes Reliance cheats a lot only for GSM users
        In postpaid if you are using 3G if your set usage is 1 gb it will put additional 100mb.charges ununnecessary…This was my experience and dont even think of prepaid…they.directly with deduct money for ununnecessary things…But if you use Reliance 3G nly for data then keep nil balance and just put netpack and use it..

      • Esmail April 30, 2014 11:02 am

        I use the postpaid Rs.321 plan of reliance GSM which gives 500 mins local plus std and 500 SMS local plus national and 1GB 3G data usable in home and pan India roam. I set my monthly data limit to 1GB in my android phone running kit Kat. Once I reach 1GB my phone automatically shuts my data connection until the next billing cycle, and I have never faced any extra charges levied by reliance for data usage since I never use beyond the free 1GB.

        • Darshan April 30, 2014 11:43 am

          No but in my case I had put limit 1gb in S4 settings thentoo in bill it was 1078mb they had charges extra for 54mb

          • Jyotirmoy Manna May 3, 2014 7:38 am

            Androids/smart phones do not show accurate usage always, be it Samsung or other premier companies.

  • Krishan April 29, 2014 5:12 pm

    Everyone is blaming that Govt PSU does not provide good services, But did you ever think why Govt PSU is not able to provide quality services???
    Govt PSU already paid full amount in lumsum while pvt operators will pay this amount in installments.

    Govt PSU services are not good that’s why private operators exists,
    Govt is responsible for each & every Indian citizen while private company exists only for profit.

    Everyone knows in every emergency situation, who is taking care of public, while private operators are not bound for any public service.

    For every govt department & (VVIP’s minister’s) who is taking care of their visit (without any extra allowances) Because this is govt PSU responsibility.

    In non-profitable areas (like hilly areas, very remote area, naxal area) who is investing without return. Its only Govt PSU.
    & think who is owner of Govt PSU, i.e Govt of india,
    Means if you are blaming/abusing Govt PSU that means you are blaming govt of india.
    I hope you know how govt of India forms, if govt of India is not working as per your wishes, then definitely Indian public is only responsible for this
    & who is public it’s you & me. Your vote that makes “Government of India”.

    • SS April 29, 2014 6:00 pm

      Private companies aren’t getting grants from government like BSNL do. They know that if the make continuous loss, they will have to shut down. Thats not the case with BSNL. their employees know that whatever job we do, we are going to get our salary and that’s the reason of the laziness.

      • Riju April 29, 2014 6:44 pm

        Bsnl getting no grants from government since 2005

      • Sudar April 29, 2014 7:50 pm

        100 % right

      • DUANE April 30, 2014 10:06 am

        @SS well said … you have summed up BSNL/MTNL impeccably.

    • Saurabh April 29, 2014 8:09 pm

      @Krishan,

      We know it but I think you don’t know that everybody paid lumpsum amount for 3G and BWA spectrum and it was made within 10 days of auction ending. The payment in installments were introduced in Nov 2012 spectrum auction in which Uninor, Videocon, Voda etc. got spectrum. And for your kind information BSNL has not participated in any auction since 2010 and they got Pan-India 3G spectrum without even entering it. In one way why 1 slot was reserved for BSNL and they were given undue advantage? While private operators had to fight to get a slot, BSNL was enjoying Pan-India license because of reservation and also since 2009 without making any payment as spectrum price was not discovered till the auction.

      What you have to say when BSNL had monopoly in mobile services and made a windfall profit between 2003-2008 and was sitting on a cash pile of Rs. 40,000+ crores and enjoying hefty interest on this cash and private operators were in expansion mode and all of them were not Pan-India. Why BSNL is allowed to waste spectrum in 900 MHz band when at most of places they use 1800 MHz. Such an inefficient use of spectrum.

      Why BSNL is allowed to surrender BWA spectrum in 2600 MHz band when there was no rule of exit at time of giving licenses? So people only see one face of coin and forget about other that BSNL always got undue advantages and even after having so much of Govt support, what they provide at last to customer is Baba ji ka thullu. :P

      As far as your point of private operator just here for money is concerned. Tell me one thing do you want them to charity in name of telecom services? Do you really want to take load of your spending so that you can enjoy on their money paid to Govt? Get some sense dude. If people will go by your understanding then from a tea staller to a shop owner will stop their business as you would expect all at cheaper rates so that they can’t make profits. :P

      As far as your point regarding VVIPs and Minister are concerned, we don’t have asked BSNL to feed ministers on public money. BTW do you ever visit remotest of the areas so that you don’t have to face coverage problems?

      We vote so that the job given to them is done and they perform their duties with honesty and not with greed for money. I, as a citizen performing my duties either it be paying taxes or keeping the country clean by not spreading waste on roads. I also donate to charities for help of poor and after doing all what we get from GoI or Govt departments?

      >>>>>>>> I hope you know how govt of India forms, if govt of India is not working as per your wishes, then definitely Indian public is only responsible for this.<<<<<<<<

      What is this??? If people who have been given the job are not doing their duties then public is responsible for it? I don't have words for you actually. Suppose you work in a company and a job is given to you for helping general people and the you are not performing or doing your duties, so is public responsible for it? What company will do is throw you away and what people will do is throw Govt away.

      The situation in the country currently is not people are not working but Govt is getting greedy and in every project they look at their personal interest first and country's thereafter.

      A place where Business see so much of hurdles then how can they make profits or pass on any benefits to consumers?

      • Krishan April 29, 2014 9:57 pm

        I know that BSNL is not participated in any auction but paid highest bidding amount for PAN India. One slot was reserved for BSNL and MTNL because presence of Govt PSU is mandatory in each corner of country.
        As per your saying “What you have to say when BSNL had monopoly in mobile services and made a windfall profit between 2003-2008”.
        BSNL entered in mobile segment around 2002 while some private operators entered in 1998, and they are charging 15rs/min for incoming and 18rs/min for outgoing. So who is doing monopoly? In 2002 when BSNL started mobile services by abolishing incoming charge & incoming is free from that time.
        All private telecom players are grown up only with the help of BSNL/MTNL. They are using BSNL & MTNL infrastructure. And regarding spectrum sharing, that cannot be shared with any other operator as per government guidelines.
        As per your saying “Why BSNL is allowed to surrender BWA spectrum in 2600 MHz band when there was no rule of exit at time of giving licenses?”
        BSNL has not demanded BWA spectrum & it was forcefully imposed to BSNL by telecom ministry. BSNL don’t need this BWA spectrum, this spectrum can be used for any other purposes that’s why BSNL & Telecom ministry decided to return it.
        As per your saying “As far as your point of private operator just here for money is concerned. Tell me one thing do you want them to charity in name of telecom services? Do you really want to take load of your spending so that you can enjoy on their money paid to Govt? Get some sense dude. If people will go by your understanding then from a tea staller to a shop owner will stop their business as you would expect all at cheaper rates so that they can’t make profits.”
        You might have enough money, so you can fulfill all your needs, but in this country everyone is not like you, there are many people who cannot fulfill even their daily needs, communications is also a basic need now days, so government has to take care of each person from rich to poor. So even organization is in loss, company cannot increase much base price. Any govt dept or BSNL is for all India.
        As per your saying “As far as your point regarding VVIPs and Minister are concerned, we don’t have asked BSNL to feed ministers on public money. BTW do you ever visit remotest of the areas so that you don’t have to face coverage problems?”
        It is Govt PSU liability & responsibility to provide facility to VVIPs & ministers. BSNL is bound for this as per code & conduct rules.
        As per your saying “We vote so that the job given to them is done and they perform their duties with honesty and not with greed for money. I, as a citizen performing my duties either it be paying taxes or keeping the country clean by not spreading waste on roads. I also donate to charities for help of poor and after doing all what we get from GoI or Govt departments?”
        You only vote for government formation and it is the duty of “Government of India”, to work effectively all govt dept & PSU work properly. The problem here is all PSU’s & government dept are governed by government of India, and without their permission individual PSU cannot change rule or take their action own. If something is right at top level then at bottom all things will be right.
        And I appreciate people like you that are performing their duties.

        • Sam April 30, 2014 12:43 am

          Exactly, the BWA spectrum wasn’t given to BSNL by choice. They had no option but to accept it and pay the amount.

        • Aam Admi April 30, 2014 9:26 am

          +1

        • Aam Admi April 30, 2014 9:55 am

          Sorry for the comment. Just noticed the official doc at TDSAT website.

          http://www.tdsat.nic.in/29.04.2014/PNo.518of11to253of13.pdf

        • RAVI - kolkata July 26, 2014 11:20 pm

          @saurabh dont try to pose oversmart. You are also seeing only one side of coin. only writing long baseless speeches sounds very well among general public in rallies. Very good reply @krishan all thumbs up

      • DUANE April 30, 2014 10:08 am

        Then why isnt BSNL -even with the 1st mover advantage- the MARKET LEADER in 3G ???

        >> BSNL has not participated in any auction since 2010 and they got Pan-India 3G spectrum without even entering it.

        • Saurabh April 30, 2014 10:47 am

          @Duane,

          You know very well why they are not. To be a market leader you have to have a strong network presence and BSNL even after 5 years have 20% 3G coverage in many circles including mine. But that’s not the case with pvt operators who are participating in most of the auction and securing spectrum and then utilizing it well.

          They did get the spectrum early but when you can’t utilize it then what others can do in it? Many would say there were hurdles in BSNL giving contract for expansion or many things but truth is the management is not interested to have a strong affect on Govt and not clear with its stand. They were asked to prepare alternative network for defense but the irony is first step hasn’t been taken yet. If same were given to a private company, it would have been completed before time. When a PSU can’t work rightly then they don’t have any right to exist. BSNL has countless excuses for not to be a leader. They balme others for their own laziness.

          If Airtel which has lesser 3G coverage than Idea start blaming them for having a better network and say that they are incurring losses because of Idea, will it make any sense? All they can do is match up with competitors rather than blaming.

          • RAVI - kolkata July 26, 2014 11:25 pm

            baseless and judgmental comments. Can you fight a war with the best of guns in world without bullets. U have written already “Many would say there were hurdles in BSNL giving contract for expansion “. It doesnot show ur wisdom dear.

  • Pratik April 29, 2014 2:05 pm

    Kindly some one ask kapil sibbal. Please.

  • Sanjay Bafna April 29, 2014 1:51 pm

    Update :

    • Chetan April 29, 2014 2:28 pm

      This legal tangle will continue till new telecom minister comes and takes the onus. Kapil sibal will definatly push for more legal issues before new govt comes

      • Harish April 29, 2014 3:38 pm

        Dear Chetan, the order today pronounced by TDSAT regarding Intra-Circle Arrangement has nothing to do with Telecom Minister whoever is or will be in the office (future). This is a legal battle and no one has power to permit telecos for their agreements as of now except the Honourable Supreme Court until it pronounces a new verdict or holds TDSAT verdict apt. This will be the status unless DOT decides to withdraw the case filed in Honourable Supreme Court and accepts today’s verdict by TDSAT regarding current agreement between telecos.

  • Prithvi April 29, 2014 1:48 pm

    Not suspecting either party but how will we know the “real” truth behind this? We need somebody like Vinod Rai (ex-CAG Chief) to investigate.

  • mathew April 29, 2014 1:37 pm

    AVOID group will nowenjoy more profits through expansion of services without investment.
    2g and 3g tariff should be reduced and minimum speed must be revised to 256 kbps and 3.6 mbps or no FUP.
    note :
    Before 2g scam was brought into light
    idea 2gb = Rs 98
    After
    idea 1 gb = Rs 154
    * I hope they will not increase call and data tariff for atleast a month.

    • DUANE April 30, 2014 10:22 am

      Matthew wishful thinking!
      When the price of everything we use daily has increased why should Telecom not fall in line?

  • deril April 29, 2014 1:27 pm

    I will say that avoid or any company should pay WHAT BSNL PAID IN EACH CIRCLE AND ALLOW THEM TO HAVE PAN INDIA INTER CIRCLE ROAMING IF THEY WANT…..
    Without paying for the whole circle and providing 3g by INTER CIRCLE ROAMING is cheating bsnl and government…….

    • Saurabh April 29, 2014 1:58 pm

      Will you stop talking non-sense? I knew that in a few minutes a BSNL lover will came and say this.

      Take and example: In Punjab circle Idea holds 5 MHz spectrum while Airtel/Vodafone don’t have license. Idea paid Rs.322 crores for 5MHz. If we go by your sense then Airtel and Vodafone both pay Govt 322 crores and after that use Idea spectrum which turns out to be a blunder as for 5 MHz DoT will get Rs.922 crores from 3 companies while BSNL paid Rs.322 crores. So will that not be unfair to AVoId?

      Better option is to put more spectrum on auction and let companies buy it.

      People like you always says BSNL will lose and I never get what they will lose? Knowing that Airtel and Vodafone don’t have 3G in Punjab the customers are not using BSNL at all and sticking with their operators. BSNL would have lost if they had got customers from other companies due to their 3G presence and started losing them after the agreements.

      What BSNL actually have is a crap 3G network which their own customer avoid to use. BSNL started 3G services in my area after 3 years of Idea launched here and you know there is no reliability at all as nobody knows when 3G will become unavailable and signal disappears.

      BSNL don’t lose because of agreements but because of their worst services which customers want to get rid off. In my circle Haryana, people spit on BSNL. :P

      • Ash April 29, 2014 3:01 pm

        BSNL’s 3G network is far better than that of Idea and Docomo in Kerala. At the same time it’s cheap too.
        The above discussed Inter Circle Roaming agreement is a clear case of back door entry and the government of India is the ultimate loser. It would not have been illegal if the Private Operators were not allowed to add new customers in Telecom Circles where they didn’t hold 3G spectrum. However, the TDSAT has now controversially allowed that too. BSNL+MTNL got PAN India 3G license for a mammoth amount of Rs 12,000 Crore. Now, the cartel of private operators will get the same benefit for a relatively meager amount of Rs 3500 Crore – clear case of screwing the Indian Government. Let DOT file an appeal and BSNL along with MTNL join the case in High Court against this frauds.

        • Mahmood Junaid April 29, 2014 3:39 pm

          hows bsnl 3g coverage in rural areas in kerala…. in calicut district they have coverage only in urban areas…

        • Saurabh April 29, 2014 4:01 pm

          @Ash, 3500 crore??? Who told you they (private operators) paid 3500 crores only? Even your figures related to BSNL-MTNL are completely wrong. You are also among the majority of Indian who just comment without knowing actual facts.

          AVoId in total paid Rs. 29, 633 crores to Government to acquire 3G spectrum not 3500 crores.

          BSNL have good services in few Southern circles and in RoI they are completely worst. Kerala don’t comprise of whole India. Why don’t you shout about BSNL getting 3G spectrum ahead of auction in Jan 2009 while others got it in September, 2010. As a PSU BSNL-MTNL got undue benefits by Govt. Who will pay for the profits they get during this period by having a monopoly? Not only this BSNL has monopoly in many other segments too and taking advantage of it.

          BSNL is just wasting 3G spectrum by not launching services in towns which private operators are very well doing. They are spending huge amount in order to provide quality services to India and what people get with so called cheap service from BSNL is no 3G signal 15 out of 30 days in month. No response from servers after connecting Internet. BSNL don’t value customer’s money at all. In name of Customer care you have b***sh** on your face.

          Try to see overall India story rather than just Kerala story.

          • Amit Dhage April 29, 2014 4:41 pm

            Agree with u Saurabh on this point that BSNL is wasting its spectrum in Rest of India certainly in Maharashtra also. Take a simple example if u insert BSNL 3g sim in universal usb modem it will take about 10-12 attempts to connect while even a Reliance 2g sim will take just 1-2 attempts to connect using the same process.

          • Sam April 29, 2014 4:57 pm

            Let’s take . y random circle. Say, Mumbai. Highest bid was equal to X, and this is what mtnl paid. Now, if idea, without having paid anything, apart from whatever arrangement they’ve got with airtel, manages to provide 3G, how is it fair to the operators who paid for their license.

            You’re calculation of 900 odd crores is based on considering Avoid as a single entity, which it is not. These are three different companies, and in no way can they operate on a single license.

            Bsnl’s service quality is different issue

          • Krishan April 29, 2014 5:10 pm

            But did you ever think why Govt PSU is not able to provide quality services???
            Govt PSU already paid full amount in lumsum while pvt operators will pay this amount in installments.

            Govt PSU services are not good that’s why private operators exists,
            Govt is responsible for each & every Indian citizen while private company exists only for profit.

            Everyone knows in every emergency situation, who is taking care of public, while private operators are not bound for any public service.

            For every govt department & (VVIP’s minister’s) who is taking care of their visit (without any extra allowances) Because this is govt PSU responsibility.

            In non-profitable areas (like hilly areas, very remote area, naxal area) who is investing without return. Its only Govt PSU.
            & think who is owner of Govt PSU, i.e Govt of india,
            Means if you are blaming/abusing Govt PSU that means you are blaming govt of india.
            I hope you know how govt of India forms, if govt of India is not working as per your wishes, then definitely Indian public is only responsible for this
            & who is public it’s you & me. Your vote that makes “Government of India”.

          • DUANE April 30, 2014 10:25 am

            Well said, Saurabh: BSNL is Bull-Shit Nothing Less!

        • SS April 29, 2014 6:04 pm

          You are wrong. Idea 3G has the widest coverage in kerela (info- tharun george) and you cannot compare them.

          • vsk April 29, 2014 7:24 pm

            Bsnl 3g is better in kerala compared to idea 3g . idea 3g won’t get indoor coverage .it is only available outside .Bsnl 3g has good indoor coverage too . Bsnl 3g is cheap 139/ GB compared to idea 3gs 249/GB .Bsnl 3g have good speed around 3mbps download. Am from a rural village of kerala .I don’t think this alliance help customers because avoid are only behind profit .

            • Kurian Jacob April 29, 2014 9:57 pm

              I use both. BSNL 3G is present in important towns only. Idea 3G is almost everywhere in Kerala.

          • Akhil Mohan April 29, 2014 9:48 pm

            Truly said SS. In Kerala BSNL is providing decent coverage by their standards, but compared to idea the are rubbish. Idea provides excellent coverage and speed. Even DoCoMo has way better speed compared to BSNL.

      • kumar April 29, 2014 5:40 pm

        Mr.saurabh,
        as u said if u put more spectrum in auction, more money will come….when the spectrum quantity is of sufficient in nature, who ever want to do the business will purchase the spectrum at the intended price…as per you…one more thing, if u r responsible citizen and want to develop your country, and at anything if any drawbacks/short-comings found in any company, u give a feedback to the concerned top-level authorities, how they can improve…no use of un-necessary commenting… which will be helpful to u and others also

        • Saurabh April 29, 2014 8:18 pm

          @Mr. Kumar,

          How do you want country to grow? By making spectrum costly so that operators avoid small areas where only few customer need services?

          Responsible citizen doesn’t means you always think of filling Govt treasuries with lots of money at businessman’s cost. If a commodity gets too costly then it will be difficult for people to even use it. But just like others you also have a problem of getting cheap services and also want Govt coffins to be full of money. This kind of economics can only help you grow not telecommunications in India.

          I just have one thing to say, either Govt make available enough spectrum for all or allow ICRA. If it doesn’t happen the so called PSU will take advantage of having Pan-India license which will be unfair to other operators.

          Even if the auction happens, there will be new price for every circle. While BSNL will enjoy old rates as they get Pan-India in 2009, private operators will have to shell out more for getting spectrum in circles where they were unable to bid last time because of scarcity created by Govt.

    • MG April 29, 2014 6:51 pm

      All this is going to be a moot point soon. All new spectrum auctions are technology agnostic. This means any spectrum can be used for anything, 2G, 3G or 4G, depending on the carrier’s plans and handset/instrument support. All these carriers will deploy 3G and 4G on 1800 or even 900 Mhz wherever possible and start phasing out 2G. The 2100 Mhz 3G spectrum will end up being unnecessary.

  • Krishan April 29, 2014 1:19 pm

    can anyone please tell, what is the exact T&C of DOT for 3G roaming agreements.

    • Saurabh April 29, 2014 1:46 pm

      Here are the excerpts from legal documents. Read it and then you will find the answer to why companies have a strong case.

      #12. Will intra circle roaming be allowed in areas where an operator does not have a
      3G network?

      Reply from Dot- Intra-circle roaming will be governed by
      the UAS/ CMTS licence provisions and
      applicable Government regulations.

      My Take- As the UAS/CMTS allows it then no problem should be there. DoT on backfoot here.

      ___________________________________

      #48. DoT order No. 842-725/2005-VAS/269 dated 12th June 2008 allows intra-circle roaming amongst UASL licensees. After 3G auctions not all existing UASL licensees will hold 3G spectrum in any licensed areas due to the limited 3G blocks on offer. Will customers of UASL licenses who do not hold 3G spectrum be allowed to roam on the 3G networks of
      other UASLs in the same licensed area? Furthermore, till such time as more 3G blocks are released into the market, will it not be customer friendly for the government to mandate that 3G spectrum holders allow the customers of operators not holding 3G spectrum in the same licensed area to roam on their networks under an administered pricing mechanism?

      DoT replied- The roaming policy is applicable to the licences and not to specific spectrum bands. Hence, roaming will be permitted. However, at present, mandatory roaming or MVNO is not part of the Government’s telecoms policy.

      My Take- When they have clearly stated that it is not applicable to a specific spectrum band and allowed in UAS/CMTS and will be permitted then there should be no objection now. DoT again on backfoot.
      ___________________________________________________

      #230. Will intra-circle roaming be allowed for 3G & BWA?

      DoT replied- The provision for intra-circle roaming is as applicable to the service licence, and is not different for/ specific to the spectrum being currently auctioned.

      My take- When it was asked for third time and DoT gave go ahead according to current rules by saying that intra circle roaming agreements are applicable according to service license and not spectrum then the service licenses telecom companies hold in all of the 22 service areas allow them to enter into Intra circle roaming. DoT nipped in the ground now with this.

      All the commentators here should read this before making any non-sense comments like cartel should have had paid money to get this decision and blah blah blah. I;m very happy to see it be allowed by TDSAT as companies never violated rules and neither they tie-up before auction started and applied for selected circles as if it is the case Airtel/Voda never ever had let go 3G license in Punjab to Tata/Reliance/Aircel as they had huge customer bases there. So chill now and welcome TDSAT verdict. :)

      • Aam Admi April 29, 2014 2:25 pm

        Then, Why would we need a spectrum auction?

        • Amit Dhage April 29, 2014 4:48 pm

          Dear Aam Admi,

          As the no of user aka customers go on increasing the spectrum allotted becomes crowded so it affects proper functioning of regular users be it data usage or call facility.

          • Aam Admi April 30, 2014 9:40 am

            If TDSAT can allow ICR, then why shouldn’t DOT allot a part of spectrum for each operator at a fixed price.

  • spiderman April 29, 2014 1:01 pm

    Allow Intra & Inter circle roaming !!

    • ash April 30, 2014 12:09 am

      Allowed

      • Shuvam Dutta April 30, 2014 2:54 am

        +1

  • Saurabh April 29, 2014 12:59 pm

    Good decision by TDSAT as companies didn’t violated any terms and it was DoT which was not clear with its statements at time of auction.

    When companies asked clearly at time of auction that spectrum is limited so will we be allowed to share spectrum in areas where we don’t hold license i.e will Intra circle roaming be permitted. DoT replied- Yes, it will be permitted.

    Then when it happened, an uproar came from DoT as they thought there is a violation. They should pay for the mistake they made not the companies. Even if case gets challenged in SC, DoT has a week position and will lose.

    • Saurabh April 29, 2014 1:29 pm

      All DoT can do now is ask the companies who are using each other spectrum on Intra Circle basis to pay SUC (Spectrum Usage Charge) if they want some share of it.

      It should not be DoT business to whom companies are allowing their spectrum to use and what they are paying each other as they already got spectrum fee from companies. I always knew that DoT will be on receiving end in ICRA case after reading the legal documents and same happened. Now they gonna lose in SC also.

      In order to clear the mess they also have the option to put more 3G spectrum on auction quickly. If they can’t, companies have all the rights legally to provide 3G services in non-licensed areas via ICRA.

  • SS April 29, 2014 12:58 pm

    I couldn’t stop laughing after reading this news. How can the government be so foolish to miss an important term in the T&C which the avoid group easily exploited. Now, if there isn’t any further problems, ICRA will be reality till the expiry of their 3G license. I think that even if DoT approches supreme court, its little what they could do.

    A day of celebration for AVOID and a slap on government’s face.

    • deril April 29, 2014 1:30 pm

      Corruption……..but boon for customers

  • rajesh kumar dubey April 29, 2014 12:30 pm

    i can bring new idea/vodafone sim and i can use idea 3g on airtel/vodafone network in (m.p and c.g. ).????? plz help me out bro

  • Parag,west bengal April 29, 2014 12:18 pm

    SO, intra cirle roaming is now legal?
    Do Airtel sell 3G services to Kolkata circle now?

    • saumik b April 29, 2014 7:14 pm

      Babu moshai
      It is not a rocket science. Hold on your horses, god will grant your wishes soon.

      Tab tak rasgulla khao and be happy :)

  • idea88 April 29, 2014 12:11 pm

    @sanjay bafna so after this verdict i can bring new idea/vodafone sim and i can use idea 3g on airtel/vodafone network in mumbai?? reply